App based DC layout control by Hornby [with HM6000 / HM6010]

[Flashbang]

This topic was posted elsewhere and I have unashamedly copied and pasted the text (why waste time in re writing something? :-)

 

So is this correct? If so, anyone have further details?

 

Hornby have announced an analogue control system for all major iOS and Android phones and tablets.

It will use Bluetooth Low Energy and talk to new Hornby modules which can be added to allow up to eight independent tracks to be controlled.

It will include layout design features for integration with the control.

Limited point and accessory control can be added.

No mention of DCC control compatibility or Hornby Loco Detection (a much delayed system).

No mention of if it will deal with a train passing from one track to another. Couldn't see a mention of back-emf compensation or power supplies or current limits per DC output.

[Bexhill Donkey]

The system is to be called 'HM 6000' and is featured on 'Signal Box' Episode 8. Here is a direct link to the relevant section of the video:

However, the presenter says the 'system is still in development', so as with Loco Detection, it may turn out to require components made out of Unobtainium.

[96RAF]

More (but not much) info here Brian

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/hornby-launches-app-for-model-railway-control

[Bexhill Donkey]

It does look as though you can only control locos via the app which would mean it would be useless if your device had not been recharged. I think it would be a best seller if it had a conventional knob. Bluetooth access via an app is an interesting idea, but it won't appeal to the old guard who don't want to go DCC.

[walkingthedog]

Why do you say only control locos when it clearly states "control up to eight circuits, points and accessories"?

[96RAF]

The whole point of an app based control is the knobs are on your device screen. If you had a box with knobs to twiddle then it would’t be app control would it, it would be - err - what you have now.

[walkingthedog]

Even I might have a look at it Rob. 

[96RAF]

Why do you say only control locos when it clearly states "control up to eight circuits, points and accessories"?

 

Exactly - Quote from the link I posted . . .

You can control your layout accessories using the layout trackplan design tool, if desired.

[walkingthedog]

I'm just going to find a wall to bang my head on Rob so my next post might be in double vision. 

[96RAF]

I shall bang on with trying to find out further details of how it works.

[Bexhill Donkey]

The information available to date is that the base device called the HM6000 to control locos will cost £30. A second device called the HM6010 will be available at an additional cost to control points and signals. The video shows two prototype HM6000 units and two prototype HM6010.  So you would need four devices to control the small trakmat layout featured.  The cost of all this would not work out much cheaper than DCC train set and would only benefit layout owners with a large collection of DC locos.  I think HM6010 will cost more, based on the number of components on view in the video, let's say double the price of the loco controller, so say £30 for the HM6000 and £60 for the HM6010, which makes £180 for the whole set up.

The video is here:

[96RAF]

The prices were plainly in view on the RM web forum listing also on the GM retail site. £25 for one and £30 the other. From memory you can link four modules together but it doesnt clearly state how many tracks each module supports or what each module type does in detail and how it achieves it, except each has its own power supply, so they probably work akin to a DCC signal booster in that each powers its own loop, and the app sends instructions to each loop, but how does it handle any cross overs loop to loop -  as has been asked before.

[Fishmanoz]

Rob, I think it is pretty clear from your link that each module will control 2 track circuits and the App can handle 4 modules, hence the coverage of 8 circuits.

 

So it seems to me you need only one module to cover a 2-loop trackmat or similar layout, not including separate control of sidings, and not including point or accessory control.

[96RAF]

Fishy

After looking at the blurb again I was about to say up to four stackable track control modules, each capable of running two channels (loops) and each module with its own power supply. As DC points are route switchers each channel of a single module would suffice for a loop and its directly associated siding.

 

In addition an accessory module for controlling signals and/or points and presumably also up to four of these will be linkable. Presumably as these can output either pulse or constant there must be a way of programming them from within the app.

 

It is not clear if the module power supplies are included (e.g. 1 amp wall warts) or as was the case with the new twiddly knob DC controller you had to buy it separately, which if so will push the total price up somewhat.

 

Nor is it clear of there will be a proper downloadable manual or whether it will all be covered by ‘hints’ within the ‘simple and intuitive’ app.

[96RAF]

I picked up a copy of the 2020 catalogue from Tescos today and it includes a decent write up about the new app.

 

What is fixed in print is each HM6000 BLE (bluetooth low energy) control module can connect and control independently 2 x separate track loops (channels). The app maxes out at 8 x independent control loops by way of stacking 4 x HM6000 modules each with their own wall-wart power supply. It is possible to control up to 8 x loops from a single HM6000 module (4 x loops connected to each channel) and power source but only 1 x loco can be under control per channel at any one time, hence some track isolation may be required to avoid having to remove out of use locos.

 

The HM6010 PAC (point and accessory control) module can support 4 x accessories or points, with the app max limit of 12 x accessories or points. Pulse or constant is selectable from within the app but there is no detail of how this is accomplished. Up to 3 x HM6010 PACs can be powered from a single power supply within required current output limits, else more power supplies will be required. It is not clear if the power supply unit is included or if the PAC power supply comes with a module to module loop harness or of this will be an extra.

 

There is a selection of sounds including generic locos noises within the app but it is not clear how these manifest on track - maybe they issue from the controlling handset (phone, tablet, etc) or maybe they can be sent to a BT speaker. The app will be available for installation on all OS.

 

Another app addition is a track planner, which uses scaled parts not RM style felt tip pen parts. The planner track diagram is also used to control points and accessories.

 

Any more questions will require me to photo and blow up the catalogue page as some of the app screen illustrations are too small for my aging eyes.

[jamos]

i think the best is the hornby 2000 or the coming out hornby 6000(all is explined about the hornby 6000 in this video on this page.Hornby launches App for model railway control - World Of Railways

 

 

thanks

jack

[Deacon_Chris]

This system looks just what is needed - myself falling into the category of "tried DCC and it didn't work for me". My one concern is that with a very large layout like mine (21' x 13') One amp is probably not going to be enough. A regulated power supply looks possible, but the Hornby DCC system has the capability of taking a booseter supply (bought as an optional extra). For serious use, would this be a sensible route, as others have said on this thread that one of the target audiences would probably be those with too many engines to make DCC a viable alternative?

[Jimbo1707820979]

Thankyou for the link, Jack. This cleared up my puzzlement about what exactly is involved. And thanks also Deacon-Chris as your remarks very much apply to my situation.

I feel Hornby may have a real winner here, in view of the tablet predilections of the younger generation. 😀.  However, I wonder if the operator is going to spend most of his time looking at his tablet rather than enjoying the sights on his layout. I run a 'mixed' layout with 3 analog controllers and 1 Elite DCC unit but do not have to keep my eyes on the controllers all the time as they can be worked by 'feel'.  Analog locos outnumber DCC locos by 6 to 1.

[96RAF]

... My one concern is that with a very large layout like mine (21' x 13') One amp is probably not going to be enough. A regulated power supply looks possible, but the Hornby DCC system has the capability of taking a booseter supply (bought as an optional extra). For serious use, would this be a sensible ...

 

As previously stated each twin channel module can have its own 1 amp power supply,  up to a max total of 8 channels (4 modules) and up to 4 amps to run them, noting that on DC you are only controlling one train per channel at any one time. Or if, also as previously stated, you want to run two trains across the whole 8 loops then that is also possible using a single module and 1 amp supply. Other locos on track would have to be stabled in switch isolated sections per normal DC methodology.

[Deacon_Chris]

Thabk you for your prompt reply RAF96... though I tink we are talking a little at cross purposes. I understand that multiple circuits, with up to four modules is possible. My concern is that even with 8 possible circuits, one circuit driving two X04 powered locomotives (assuming double heading is possible?), up to 12 coaches, on a 1 in 80 gradient might just slightly max it out!

[lawstrains]

is it compitable with n guage

[Bexhill Donkey]

If you got the 2020 issue of the Hornby catalogue for £4.99, you are in a stronger position to make an assessment. The device, called HM6000 is featured on pages  208-209. There is no very detailed technical information, but there is an illustration of the hardware will look like which consists of HM6000 (BLE Unit) and HM6010 (PAC Unit)  The picture looks like a photograph, but it could be a computer-generated image. Two plastic housings are depicted, one, presumably the HM6000 is the size of a cigar box and the other, presumably the HM6010 is the size of a fag packet. The HM6000 as illustrated has the same kind of wire trap connectors found on the Hornby eLink. From the size of these standard connectors in relation to the housing illustrated it is possible to determine the approximate size of the device.

This is one of those instances where you need to read the small print:

It says "Each BLE unit will require its own transformer. Four accessories or point motors may be attached to each PAC unit with the power being supplied by a separate wall transformer."

Jargon buster: "BLE" stands for "Bluetooth Low Energy", "PAC" stands for "Point and Accessories Controller"

Each R7292 BLE unit has two outlets (as with the eLink), so four units with separate transformers would be required to operate eight circuits. You can operate 8 circuits with one BLE unit, but only by manually switching circuits. Only two trains could operate at any one time with one BLE unit.

So not so clever. It would only be preferable to DCC if you have a very large number of non-DCC locos which would need to be chipped. 

.

[Fishmanoz]

N gauge answer is yes.  This controller is no different to any other DC controller as far as applying power to the track is concerned, the difference is only in the control via the app rather than a knob.

 

On the 1 Amp being marginal for 2 (or even 3) X04 motors, you would need to look at detailed specifications to see if the power end of the electronics controlling the output voltage is up to handling a 2 or 4 Amp AC power supply and doesn't just shut down on overload above 1 Amp when you try to do so.

[Ashcat]

I'm part way through building an end to end shelf layout 4.75mt x 0.67mt as yet I have not started any wiring but have fitted isolated sidings etc, I was going to go with basic DC but seeingthis I have pre orderd one of each unit will wait for its release and give it ago.

But do wish they would give us more details so maybe I could start some planning apreciate thing change but they must have a good idea of what they have will work or why bother putting it in the cataloug.

[Tony57]

Hi

Having just watched the Hornby Magazine review of the 2020 range including this item, It may be something I could be interested in but I would wait till the bugs are sorted out first, the Hornby mag guys said they will be trying the system out when it is released with articals in the Hornby Mag covering set up and use.

I brought the Zero1 system when it first came out, gave up when a couple of decoder chips caught fire inside of 2 locomotives, so I now wait till new systems are almost bug free.