Baseboard Construction

[Johno1983]

Hi All,

About the build 4 x 6x2 baseboards, going to use a 3x1 timber frame and 12mm ply, question is though, why not mdf and what is recommended soft or hard plywood??

 

Thanks

Carl

[Chrissaf]

why not MDF

.

MDF is extremely hard compared to Plywood and track pins usually need pilot holes in MDF.

.

MDF attracts moisture. And when it gets damp it delaminates and swells. So no good for external 'out houses' such as sheds and garages.

[Johno1983]

Would mdf be ok for a room in the house? Plus I'm planning to glue the track not pin it.

[96RAF]

Buy the best quality plywood you can afford, which will stay flat forever. Cheap hardwood plys from dubious places arounf the world can have voids and poor quality hardwood cores.

Birch ply is best with multiple accurate 1.6mm laminates,  but also most expensive. If you can visit a timber merchant you will be able to look at the various qualities and immediately see the difference. The likes of B&Q, Wickes, etc tend to stock much cheaper but of noticeably less quality plywood.

[Chrissaf]

Would MDF be Ok for a room in the house? Plus I'm planning to glue the track not pin it.

.

I have to admit that my own layout is MDF. But it is indoors in a spare bedroom with controlled humidity and temperature. My track is pinned down with pilot holes (0.8mm drill bit in a Dremel type tool). My board bracing is extensive and more like 4" x 1" timber to ensure no warping.

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One other negative for MDF vs Plywood. Because MDF is a higher density. It is far heavier than Plywood of equal thickness.

[Puffed Out]

MDF is fine in a dry situation, Ply will also warp in damp conditions, but not in a dry situation.  You can drill pilot holes, for pins or screws.  Why would want to glue your track down, as that'll be extemely difficult to alter if you needed to.

Marine ply is another choice, but the price......!!! 😮

You can also buy moisture resistant chipboard......would reccomend it though.

You pay your money and take your choice.

[Lancing]

Because I need to keep weight to a minimum, I'm considering using plastic foam for baseboard construction - 50mm or 100mm thick to ensure it's rigid. The best on the market seems to be US made Gator Board, but it's prohibitively expensive. UK building trade 100mm thermal insulation board is cheap, however, but would need to be edged and possibly surfaced in ply or timber. Does anyone have any experience or comment about the suitability or otherwise of this material?   

[96RAF]

The forum has covered the use of foam insultion boards for model railwy use. Try a search on foam or coretech or other brand names.

[Puffed Out]

Correction to my previous post. 😳

..

'You can also buy moisture resistant chipboard'.....I would NOT reccomend it though. 😀

[EnGee]

 Try a search on foam or coretech or other brand names.

I think you might mean 'Celotex'.

[96RAF]

 Try a search on foam or coretech or other brand names.

I think you might mean 'Celotex'.

 

Correct - Coretech is a conservatory re-roofing product.

[Buz]

Hi

I would not use MDF just for starters it weighs a ton, OK I exaggerate a little but it is very  heavy it does not like moisture at all and most scenery methods are wet.

Build a solid frame legs etc with a good quality ply wood top if you can afford it marine ply if not still get the best quality ply you can afford.

Make a good solid job of bench work construction no short cuts more model railways fail because of bad bench work than anything else.

If indoors ie the house then even more care needs to be taken for a very nice neat finish do not go upsetting the domestic authorities, it doesn't end well.

Once made give it a nice two coat of earth tone paint job this does two important things protect the layout from moisture remember most scenery methods are wet and it destroys the Plywood Central Railway look so it looks better until other scenery goes on, it also helps in not upsetting the domestic authorities because it is properly finished.

Do not forget a row of ten millimeter holes in the cross beams so you have somewhere to run wiring out of sight where it is needed and don't forget adjustable feet so you can level up the bench-work.

Remember everything you put on adds weight and operators tend to lean on it as well hence the need for very solid construction with no short cuts.

regards John

[Puffed Out]

I have never come across a board made of wood, that's never been affected by damp, even marine ply, but that's the best.

There is also sheet block board that's no one mentioned yet.!

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I have made kitchen units from MDF, and at that moment, after 14 years, it hasn't been affected by steam, damp nor water, that's because it has been treated/painted.  As for ordinary ply, have you ever seen it delaminate, coz I have. Ply also needs to be treated for longevity.

All wood will be affected by damp and water, cold and heat.

You pays your money and make your choices on the conditioms that the  layout is kept in, and of course the cost implications.

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There is one chap on another web site who's using 2 pasting tables together. (Doomed to failure I would think), but it's only a temporay layout..  He paid his money and made his choice.

[Lancing]

Thanks RAF96, I've now found some useful information of the RMWeb site. I'd done a number searches already, under 'foam board', but the new result came up using 'Celotex' as one of the search words.

[96RAF]

One thing to be aware of if using foam is it can attack PVC insulation on wires over time so you have may to sleeve any cables passing through e.g. droppers or point motor/signal feeders. This might be mentioned on either the foam spec sheet or H&S leaflet. Drinking straws make good sleeves as you get them in regular or jumbo diameters.

[sir john]

Hi All

After reading some of the comments on here about the merits of different surfaces allow me to put the record straight and dispel a few myths

I spent 48 years in the timber trade and never encountered any sheet material that was waterproof.

In actual fact it is the glue that is waterproof

My own layout is built on chipboard and has never moved even though it is in a shed at the end of the garden

Any sheet material at best is moisture resistant hardwood faced plywood is by far the best (and dearest) but the main thing to lookout for is the wbp stamp which means the glue is waterproof. The ply sold by most diy chains is Russian birch which has poor cores and voids (I lost count of the amount of packs returned by a well know manufacturer of carpet gripper) because it delaminated as they were cutting it

So pay your money and take your choice above all give it a good coat of sealer which ever medium you chose 

Regards John 

[Jimbo1707820979]

Sundeala !  Supported by a wooden frame.

[Lyd 85B]

Sundeala !  Supported by a wooden frame.

 

It gets my vote too Jimbo, as I have found it easy for pinning (and unpinning) track, and I have had no problems with warping, even in my garden shed, but it seems to be anathema to many others.

 

[Johno1983]

So my boards are going to be 6ftx2.5ft

So going to use a 12mm hardwood ply top, with 18mm x 44mm timber. with 4 study legs.

Do you think the timber dimensions is adequite? 

 

[96RAF]

I would go for more legs. My boards have legs every 4 feet. You could get away with 4 legs to a modular series of boards if you offset them like this.

First pair at board 1 left hand end corners, second pair at 4’ with a 2’ overhang to the next board which matches the leg arrangement of the first board but reversed, i.e. 2’ overhang, a pair of legs then 4’ to next legs at board right hand end corner, so 2 boards will have 8 legs. Carry on along the rest of the boards.

[The Duke 71000]

I have never come across a board made of wood, that's never been affected by damp, even marine ply, but that's the best.

There is also sheet block board that's no one mentioned yet.!

.

I have made kitchen units from MDF, and at that moment, after 14 years, it hasn't been affected by steam, damp nor water, that's because it has been treated/painted.  As for ordinary ply, have you ever seen it delaminate, coz I have. Ply also needs to be treated for longevity.

All wood will be affected by damp and water, cold and heat.

You pays your money and make your choices on the conditioms that the  layout is kept in, and of course the cost implications.

.

There is one chap on another web site who's using 2 pasting tables together. (Doomed to failure I would think), but it's only a temporay layout..  He paid his money and made his choice.

 

Marine Plywood is 100% waterproof or it isn't Marine Plywood !

As Marine Plywood was designed for use in Yacht hulls, it should be 100% waterproof. If it isn't I would demand my money back, as it obviously can't be Marine Plywood. I've used Marine Plywood without any problems for around 40 years on all my exhibition layouts. Indeed I expect Baseboards made with Marine Plywood to last 25 years without warping. But it is expensive, 76 sheets 8ft x 4ft cost £4,500 for my layout (3 years ago).  Note: You will NOT find Marine Plywood at DIY stores, only at proper timber merchants. Tip: Never buy wood from any store that stores wood on its end, these are amateurs, the wood will warp.

   

However most people go wrong by mixing two types of wood in their Baseboard construction. Different woods expand & contract at different rates, and this problem can force warpage. With 12mm thick basebaord tops supported on 15mm thick plywood frames. All my Baseboards are 2 metres long but vary in width up to 1.5m wide. My frame design uses a little Civil Engineering to greatly increase strength and resist any warpage.

 

My frames are 80mm high. The frame sides are made as a "sandwich". I cut two 80mm wide strips 1,970mm long (which allows for 2 x 15mm end frame parts).  I then cut 5 chocks from 15mm plywood. Each piece being 100mm wide and 80mm high. The chocks are positioned at 500mm intervals between the two x two metre long side parts. Glued & screwed together, to complete one side frame. The chocks if carefully spaced at 500mm intervals also provide a sold section where each of the frame crossbars will be located. The two ends and three crossbars necessary for a 2 metre long frame are each made of a single strip of Ply 80mm high, and however long your frame will be in width. The two sandwich sides, two ends & three intermediate cross bars are then screwed and glued (with PVA) together.

  

Once the "sandwich" sided frames are built, I can put them on their legs and then climb up and walk on them with a deflection in the centre of no more than 5mm even though I weigh about 13 stone !

 

Each baseboard stands on a simple pair of pine timber legs at one end. The upper crossbar on the legs is fixed 70mm from the top of the legs, so that the Baseboard end sits on this, providing 100% support across the end of the Baseboard. The Baseboards are perfectly lined every time using Precision "Pattern makers steel alignment dowels" (Beware cheap and imprecise imitations). They are held together by steel carriage bolts, washers and wing nuts. So each Baseboard piggy backs on the next one. Indeed the Baseboards are simply lowered onto their leg, as the leg is made to fit inside the frame end, so you only need a couple of scraps of plywood screwed to the inside corner of the frame to provide the slot the legs slot into too. This system makes set up & knock down at shows very rapid.

 

The Duke 71000