Trains run even when controller set to stop.

[Bighandz]

I am in the middle of building a DCC layout and I've just tried my first locomotive.

I am using a select controller but I'm having a few issues so any help would be appreciated

I am using a select controller but I'm having a few issues so any help would be appreciated

1. My locomotive moves even when the speed controller is set to zero.

2. The direction switches have no effect. It will go one way but not reverse.

does anybody know what I may be doing wrong. I am new to modeling and I am severely visually impaired.

Help please

Gary.

[Chrissaf]

Your post lacks crucial details of information, so what follows may or may not have a bearing on your issue.

 

First of all, are you really 100% sure that your locos have a DCC decoder fitted. Locos that have 'DCC Ready' printed on the box, do not have a decoder fitted and are in essence DC Analogue locos.

 

Secondly, what is the firmware revision of your Select? This is very important that we know this. The firmware revision is the very first number to briefly appear on the Select LCD screen when it is powered up. Expect to see a number between 10 and 20.

 

Thirdly, has your Select got trapped in Address Zero DC support mode?

 

To ensure that it is not in Address Zero mode (this description applies to earlier firmware revisions prior to 1.5) If your firmware revision shows 15 or 16 or 20 in the second item above, then refer to the Select manual for how to invoke and/or disable Address Zero support.

 

 

1. Press the zero button on the Keypad.
2. Press the 'Select' button, the display will display 00
3. Rotate the speed knob all the way up, then all the way down. Ensure 100% that the speed knob is now hard against the anti-clockwise end stop.
4. Now key in the DCC Address of the loco with the issue on the keypad.
5. Press the 'Select' button, the display should show the DCC Address you have typed in.
6. Does the loco now operate normally.

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[Bighandz]

Chrissaf. Thanks for that I'm sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Thanks for that and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

The locomotive in question was sold to me as DCC fitted and it does appear to be programmable with a different address code.

With regards to firmware you suggest I should get a number between 10 and 20 on my select screen at start up. Now because of my visual impairment this can be a bit tricky and part of the reason it's taking me so long to reply. I appear to get 2 numbers. 11 and 30. Not sure if this helps to determine my firmware or not.

Not sure if this helps to determine my firmware or not.

As yet I haven't tried the other steps you suggest because of my inability to to determine firmware number.

but again, thanks for your help.

[Chrissaf]

Ignore the 30. The firmware is 11 which actually means version 1.1 - the third number will be 03. So you should be seeing 11 followed by 30 followed by 03

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Thus the 6 step 'step by step' instruction list I provided will be applicable.

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This is a very early firmware and really should be updated to the current version.

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At the time of writing, the latest version is 1.6 [16] or 2.0 [20] - both the same. These latest versions completely transform the user experience of the Select controller and add the ability to write (not read) all CVs.

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The upgrade charge is typically £15 plus VAT [£18] plus your sending postage costs. You need to get a 'returns number' from Hornby Customer Services - see 'Contact Us' link at the very bottom of the page. Note however that at the time of writing this reply, the upgrade department is closed during the Covid lockdown.

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If you do arrange to get your Select firmware upgraded, then you will need both the Select version 1.5 full manual and the version 1.6 addendum manual. As the operation of your Select (how to use it) will be completely different in certain areas of operation compared to your current 1.1 firmware version.

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You can download these two manual PDFs from here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/index/cat/12/

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If nothing appears to happen, check your nominated browser download folder for the files as they can download silently in the background.

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[96RAF]

Just to add to what Chris has said. Loco zero if set other than off, can affect other locos as it hogs DCC bandwidth and other locos have to wait and listen out for their instructions.

 

Is it just one loco that is playing silly beggars or more.

 

Regardless - if you know the address of that loco or locos then select it/them and set the speed to something then to zero.

[Bighandz]

Thanks for that Chris.

yes the display did show, 11, 30, 03.

I have downloaded the documents you suggested.

Sounds like I will have to wait for Hornby to get their stuff back to work. Fortunately not in a rush at the moment as have other things to do on my way out.

[Bighandz]

RAF.

The first loco I tried shut off like a rocket. Then nothing else would run.

The first loco I tried shut off like a rocket. Then nothing else would run.

I will take Chris's advice and get my select unit updated as soon as possible.As I said though this is not urgent as I have such things as ballasting to do.

 as I said though this is not urgent as I have such things as ballasting to do.

It was originally only an attempt to test the locomotives I have purchased most of which are secondhand. I will get the upgrade done and see if it cures the problem.

Many thanks to you both for your help and suggestions.

[Davjan]

Hi Guys

I wanted to post a question with the same heading so please forgive me for hooking into this topic.

Due to illness I have been unable to run DCC trains for some time.

I had installed decoders in more of my locos when last using the layout,setup the address on each and tested them in Program mode all were then tested on track and running fine although no CV's were set up.

Now on test running each loco a Hornby and a Lima ran using the correct code and ran smoothly but on sliding the controller to stop the loco it ran on for a bit.

Is this a decoder fault or can I correct it by changing the CV's if so which CV will do the job ?

Davjan

[Chrissaf]

Now on test running each loco a Hornby and a Lima ran using the correct code and ran smoothly but on sliding the controller to stop the loco it ran on for a bit.

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I assume by "ran on for a bit" you just mean a few feet. In DCC this can be quite normal, particularly if the loco has been travelling fairly briskly just prior to the speed control knob being turned to zero. If you send a stop command in DCC, the loco does not come to an abrupt halt (like it does with DC Analogue). The decoder implements a more realistic slowing down to a stop. If the speed prior to the 'stop command' was quite brisk, then the slowing down to a stop takes longer in time and thus further in distance travelled. Thus what you observe the loco doing on the layout lags behind the action you are taking on the controller.

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[STG]

 

Now on test running each loco a Hornby and a Lima ran using the correct code and ran smoothly but on sliding the controller to stop the loco it ran on for a bit.

 

The locomotive decoders have momentum programmed into them. I find momentum does give a better performance due to the speed step judder not so visible, but if you don't like it you can change the CVs

[Davjan]

Just goes how rusty I have become after my layoff,the problem was I was testing the loco's on my test track which has buffers each end .

On testing on the layout they performed OK as you both advised.

Many thanks again Chrissaf and STG for your prompt reply and help.

Davjan

[Flashbang]

I think it needs further explaining as to why DCC runaways occur.  Firstly, unlike DC, DCC uses full rail voltage at around 14 volts all the time, regardless of the speed setting knob on the DCC controller/console.  Whereas DC goes from 0 (Zero) rail volts = Stopped through to a nominal 12 volts to give Top speed.   

If the DCC decoder cannot read the DCC data for several reasons (see below), it then 'sees' the DCC full rail volts as DC at full speed setting and the decoder then allows full power to be sent to the locos motors. The loco rushes off at full speed either forward or in reverse, it can only be stopped by a) The rail power being removed, Or b) the loco receiving a correct and un-corrupted data command for it to stop.

How can you stop this happening?  As I stated above there are several causes.  1) Dirty rails.  2) Dirty wheel rims.  3) Rear of wheel and the wipers dirty.  1 to 3 should be addressed regularly with general layout and loco maintenance.  4) Corrupt DCC data.  

If your DCC system allows CVs to be written, then consider turning off DC operation in the decoder via CV29 Note: Early Selects can't do this, but the latest Select firmware version 1.6 or 2.0 can, as can all other Hornby DCC systems allow altering of CV settings.  If your Select is an early firmware version 1.1 to 1.5, then once Hornby get back to work, consider upgrading it.  You must firstly obtaining a returns number to have it upgraded to the latest firmware my Hornby.  Cost £15 plus VAT and the postage from you (Return P & P is included in the price).

Item 4 above should be cured for Select owners with the upgrade. However, and in the meantime, and assuming items 1 to 3 are carried out, then you can add a DCC filter. It will help remove spikes seen on the DCC system that can cause uncontrlled run aways and on some decoders reversion of the decoders address to its default of 03.  The filter is very simple device made of two items. The two components are a  0.1uF ceramic capacitor and 120R - 150R  2watt or 3watt resistor.  There are connected together in series one lead of the resistor to one lead of the capacitor and their then remaining two leads are connected across the DCC feed and where a DCC Bus pair of wires are used its connected across the ends of the bus pair (2 filters are then used where the bus is radial  e.g. end to end).  Ready made DCC filters can be obtained or a lot cheaper (Around £0.75p) is to make your own.   😎

[96RAF]

Here’s one I made earlier...

/media/tinymce_upload/472be5d1080de4a076669cb19463d7e0.JPG

[Flashbang]

Yeap, that's exactly the idea of DCC filter(s)  😉

[Will Hay]

Your penultimate post has been very useful, flashbang, thanks.

 

I guess having firmware 10 [11 on spare] doesn't help my runaway problems then.

 

I have an authorisation number from Hormby to return it, I'm just waiting to be able to do so.

[Chrissaf]

Will,

Also make sure that you are not using DC Analogue track power connectors R8206, R602 or R8201 unless they have been modified for DCC compatibility. The quoted R number products can also be a cause of loss of DCC locomotive control.

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/media/tinymce_upload/b4889dcbbf3e9eb0c4d76ff35ec326e2.jpg

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[Will Hay]

I'd been using a modified peice of power track with the capacitor removed since December, but recently and accidentally swapped that for another length with the capacitor still in-situ.

 

Removing the capacitor, along with numerous short lengths of flexi track, has helped, but not 100%.

 

I've been testing again in the last hour and the only two locomotives that I can replicate the runaway on are the only two that have sound fitted.

Coincidence?

[96RAF]

Have you disabled DC running on every decoder and the  controller.

[Will Hay]

No.

I only read that today on another thread.

 

It's not in the manual and the addendums in the download section appear to be from 1.4 onwards.

[96RAF]

The option to turn off DC running on a Select is in the unit Reset procedure.

 

You can download the early manual by scrolling down here http://www.halton96th.org.uk/dcc-downloads.html

[Will Hay]

Thank you.

 

Presumably I can't disable the DC aspect of each decoder?

[Chrissaf]

You can once you are able to send off your Select for its upgrade and get it returned with firmware 1.6 loaded.

[Will Hay]

Yep, understood, @chrisaf, thanks, hopefully that should be soon.

How will I know when I can send in my controller, will there be an announcement?

[Flashbang]

At times I really wonder why we bother to spend considerable time and effort replying to post questions? 

On page two, second post,down of this topic, I clearly gave the reasons for uncontrolled runaways, plus I suggested a "fix" that can be used and costs less than probably £0.60p  and the best option of course of returning the Select for a Firmware upgrade via Hornby Customer services contact.

Now despite giving very clear advice on both the fix and how to obtain a returns number, the question is asked "How will I know when to return a Select?"... CONTACT HORNBY CUSTOMER SERVICE as previously advised,  It is really that simple!  They will advise all you need to know.  

Off now to pour a very large glass of something extremely strong!  😮 

[Will Hay]

I have authorisation to return the controller, along with a returns number, which I recieved just before lockdown.

Currently, hornby are not accepting returns and I presume they won't have a facility to email me directly to send it in, once they're ready.

 

Therefore, the question as to at what point to return it, without emailing hornby on a regular basis, was not unreasonable.