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Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

chris_oconn

By chris_oconn
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96RAF Grand Master

96RAF

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Service sheet 367 shows some wiring details but not enough to hazard an accurate guess at which connection is for what purpose.

 

There are the standard loco-tender 4-pin plug and socket arrangement but also an 8-pin plug and socket inside which probably route the lighting power from the couplings of which there are various types, some appearing to have a 4-pin plug on them and others seeming to have the loco-tender post and clamp electrical transfer. It is not clear what connects to what.

 

Looking into it further for you to see what can be determined.

 

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Guest Chrissaf

Chrissaf

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It is allowed .... read TIP 8 in my TIPs page as to how.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

 

But note this: Native Apple IOS image format is not supported i.e iPads and iPhones. Apple images need conversion to a supported file type first. Secondly, as a relative forum newbie with minimal posting history, your images will be held back to be approved by Hornby admin staff [not ComMods], this may take anywhere between 1 and 5 working days in the current Covid situation.

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Guest Chrissaf

Chrissaf

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  • What platform are you on .... Windows PC .... Apple Mac .... Android etc?
  • What browser are you using?
  • The image uploader is designed to work best on a Windows PC.
  • Does your image appear in the 'Reply' text box before you try to save the post. If it doesn't and the 'uploader' gives an error message. The image may be an unrecognised file type or the file size is too big. If there is an error message ... what exactly does it say.

 

Note this however, when you use the uploader tool on a Windows PC as documented via my TIP 8. You don't see anything happening on screen when you try to save the post, it just disappears from view. This can give the impression that it is not working. There is however a message that appears at the very top of the webpage that only appears briefly and you have to be quick to scroll the page up to see it, that says that the image has been held back for approval.

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96RAF Grand Master

96RAF

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Sorry for breaching rules.

If anyone would like to purchase a broken brand new Hornby Class 423 4-VEP please message me.

 

This forum does not have a personal message facility either. To contact a member they would have to write to site Admin and ask to be put in touch with you. You would then have to accept that proposal and take it from there.

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Guest Chrissaf

Chrissaf

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@chris_o'connell

As you can see, your image posting did work ... they were just held back for Hornby admin approval.

 

If the 8 way socket in the image below was empty when you obtained this loco, then it will not run. As per the image, the triangle is pointing to pin 1 and number 1 to 8 in an anti-clockwise direction.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/426739a54f40e87f1074dfb23af32508.jpg

 

Pins 1 and 5 go to the motor and Pins 4 and 8 go to the wheel pickups. At the present moment in the image, the motor is totally isolated from the wheels. The 8 way socket needs a 'DC Bypass' plug fitted that connects Pin 1 to Pin 8 and Pin 4 to Pin 5.

 

For lighting to function, then other pins need inter-connection and components for which the Class 423 VEP has a specific 'DC Bypass' blanking plate designed for it. But the stated pin connections [1-8 & 4-5] are all you need for basic motor power.

 

Here is a link for a replacement main PCB, note this board comes with the special VEP 'DC Bypass' blanking plate fitted. I have yet to find this special Class 423 'DC Bypass' item on sale as a separate individual item and it is not shown or listed on the Hornby Service Sheet 367 with a part number.

 

https://www.petersspares.com/hornby-x6314-class-423-4-vep-power-car-main-pcb.ir

 

Extract of part of an image on the link above showing the missing special Class 423 VEP 'DC Bypass' blanking plate fitted to the 8 way socket:

 

/media/tinymce_upload/841d3bcb1acd6e647c693115e8a0facc.jpg

 

 

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96RAF Grand Master

96RAF

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Having now gained sight of the wiring diagram for this model it is far from simple. I hope this helps.

 

As Chris shows the DC blanking plug has four diodes and a capacitor in order to provision directional lights on DC. A standard blanking plug will not give directional lights as is.

 

All cars have Cabin Lights but with different numbers of leds (7 - 4 - 3 - 6).

 

Each end DTCL is essentially the same with Front and Rear Lights but reversed. These end cars have only the 4-pin coupling socket.

 

TSO is a pure intercar connection. Each end 4-pin coupling is a plug.

 

MBSO has Track Pickups and Decoder socket. This car has a 4-pin coupling plug at one end and a 4-pin coupling socket at the other end.

 

Hence coupling order is DTCL-TSO-MBSO-DTCL. Obviously the inner pair can be swapped over.

 

The wiring colours for the 4-pin couplings are Brown, Red, Orange, Yellow (viewed from above right side to left side).

 

The Front/Rear lights only have the Red, Orange and Yellow wires. (2 - front lights or 1 - Rear light plus common negative).

 

The wiring colours for the inline 8-pin connection in the MBSO vehicle (running number 62467) are left to right in 2nd picture, top to bottom in 3rd picture...

Brown  (???)

Red (Rear Light)

Orange (Light - common negative)

Yellow (Front Lights)

Blue (Track Left)

Grey (Track Right)

Colour ?? (Motor 1)

Colour ?? (Motor 2)

The ribbon cable colours match the mating 8-pin socket pictured in the seating part.

 Best of luck resoldering those.

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ColinB Grand Master

ColinB

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I am surprised the shop couldn't fix it. Very rarely do circuit boards fail, but have a look round see if you can see any broken tracks. It is probably one of those four pin connectors causing the issues. I don't own one of these, I have the Bachmann equivalent. It is only controlling lighting, so find yourself someone that fixes PCs, it will probably be easy for them to fix it, without the need for a circuit diagram. I recently did the lighting on my Bachmann DMU (someone had forgot to add some diodes in production). For a decent electrical guy they just trace out the circuit board.

The diodes on the circuit board are probably to provide lighting on non DCC applications, my DMU was the same. I couldn't figure out why it needed so many components then logic kicked in. Normally the most difficult part is getting the PCB out.

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Bexhill Donkey Enthusiast

Bexhill Donkey

Posted
Posted

Sorry for breaching rules.

If anyone would like to purchase a broken brand new Hornby Class 423 4-VEP please message me.

Hi Chris.

I have got two 4-VEPs.  It is quite easy to replace the broken connector on the power car. It is Hornby X6318. You can get it on eBay.  See Service Sheet No.HSS 367B for the connectors to the other cars which are X6319, X6317

 

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  • 6 months later...
chris_oconn Apprentice

chris_oconn

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There's no need to sell or bin your 4-VEP! I have got two 4-VEPs and have had to replace the wires..................

 

 

Many thanks. Sorry for the late reply. I'll try fixing it again. It's not the coupling wires. It's the wires that go from the main circuit board in the cover that plug into the carriage. The wires have come off the mainboard and I need to solder them back on.

Do you know of another type of loco I could buy that would be compatible with the carriages?

many thanks

Chris

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