Bexhill Donkey Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Hi folksI recently acquired a Class 47 "Dionysos" from eBay, but when I put it on the track, it had no grip. Inspection revealed there were no traction tyres. According to Service Sheet HSS309E, no traction tyres are listed for this model. The question is, does it in fact have them, and if so, what size traction tyres does it take? Service sheet No. HSS309E for the Class 47 with the Ringfield motor lists X8029 traction tyres. I have some of these, so I tried them, but they don't fit, too small! So what traction tyres does it take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Does it have grooves in any of the wheels to take traction tyres. Also does it have a heavy weight inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Do the wheels have grooves cut in them for the traction tyres to fit into? If there are no grooves then the wheels aren't designed to have traction tyres fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 This is one of the 47s taken over from Lima and has a can motor rather than a Ringfield unit.Hornby have offered non-tyred wheelsets (pack X9665) but found on a number of ex-Lima models that they were needed so then offered pack X9665M with tyres - see service sheet 331 for the 37.If one wheel on each of the outer axles on your loco's motor bogie has a groove cut in to the tread, it should have a tyre fitted in each. However, these are NOT X8029. The tyre pack you need is X9722, again as per sheet 331. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 It does have grooves to take traction tyres. On some Hornby models, such as the Eurostar, the wheels with traction tyres also have pickups, so the fact that there is a pickup to that wheel does not mean there should not be a traction tyre. The drive wheels X9665 as illustrated appear to have traction tyres, but the traction tyres are not listed separately. I think they might be the same ones as are used on tender driven locos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Unless it's at least 550g in weight, I cannot see how it can function acceptably without traction tyres.I only see one powered bogie, powered at one end. I don't know the present Hornby Class 47 - I had one of the original ones when it came out in the 70's - with ringfield motor and traction tyres. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Hornby pack X9722 may be difficult to obtain but Peters Spares offer their PS42 substitute pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony57 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 HiMy version of Class 47 Dionysos had traction tyers fitted to it when brand new, the tyers perished over time I have yet to try to fit new ones. It came with three coach train pack call Blue Pullman . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 I noticed on a service sheet for some other loco I was looking up, that it didn't list traction tyres. I just assumed it was a fault with the Service Sheet. There is no way that would work without traction tyres, I don't think it is heavy enough. I have a Hornby class 66 and 59, and they are of similar design and they have traction tyres. From your original question, we know it doesn't work without traction tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ard Lochan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Hornby did offer a replacement wheel set for those locos so that you could fit traction tyres to those that not were equped with them. The non traction tyre one that I had would not pull three coaches round a 3rd raduis curve. I do not know if they are still available, Probably not.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Thanks, folks. I have found out you can get "Hornby X9722 Tyres Pk Ex Lima" - Pack of 10 for £5.50 from the Model shop on Malta which trades on eBay. He has 6 left in stock, so I would order if yours have perished. Search for "Hornby X9722" to find the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threelink Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 If you experience delay in obtaining relacement traction tyres for anything try pulling off the rubbery finger grip from Wilko's own brand black biros and cutting off narrow slices as tyres. They will stretch to fit most small to medium wheels. It's only a short term quick fix and it will probably muck up your track a bit, but it works and they don't half grip the rail. Main thing is to keep the slices thin, avoid twisting them when affixing to wheel and make sure that they are fully bedded down. Other biro makes might work just as well - I just happened to have a Wilko biro to hand at the time. I now have a box of finger grips ready for any emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threelink Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 I mean narrow, rather than thin. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threelink Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Oh dear. I should have added that you need to turn the slices inside out because the outside is textured but the inside is not. Memory is not what it was. Apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 Hornby X9722 does not fit Dionysos - they are too small. These traction tyres are listed for the ex-LIma class 47, but Dionysos does not have these size wheels. I have tried the tyres for the Networker, Pendolino, Eurostar, but these too are too small. Question what traction tyres fit? Does anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 The tyres have to be stretched, slightly, as they go over the flange and they will then sit tightly in the groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 I found these on eBay. They are made of a more stretchy rubber, so I am going to try them.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293733733909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I would be interested to hear how you get on with the ebay tyres because the specification suggests they will be too wide and possibly too deep to fit the groove (assuming your loco is still original). I note an earlier purchaser claims them to be good for the Hornby 47 among others but I suspect that is a reference to the traditional Hornby loco rather than the re-engineered Lima version which uses markedly different tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 X9722 are way too small to fit Dionysos. The diameter of the wheel not including the flange is 12.5mm. The diameter of X9722 is 9mm.Next question: is there a difference between R1093 train set Dionysos and R1099 Dionysos? The one I have got has directional lighting, but a YouTube review of the Blue Pullman train set version says this loco does not have this feature. Hatton's second-hand loco entry describes Dionysos as having a Ringfield motor, but my Dionysos does not have this - it has a motor with worm gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 The HST wheels are about 12.5 mm, so have you tried them? It sounds like you need tyres for a new model Hornby, not the old ringfield motor type. I know the issues you are having it took about 3 lots to get the right ones for my Morning Star loco. Have you looked up the service sheet for the current production class 47? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I can find no detailed reference to set R1099 which gives me any clue as to the type of loco it contained but, being numerically only 6 sets after R1093 containing the loco as covered by Service Sheet 309E, I think it is safe to assume they are the same albeit the presence of lighting in R1099's loco means there are some differences between the two. However, that should not affect traction tyres. Unfortunately, sheet 309E does not identify the traction tyres fitted but sheet 331 for the 37, which uses the same wheelsets, does - X9722. If you have been supplied with the correct pack (and not X9721, which are smaller), these should fit if your loco conforms to sheet 309. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 X9722 definitely do not fit. My "Dionysos" does not conform to sheet 309 in that it is fitted with directional lighting which is not illustrated on sheet 309. I am beginning to think that the original owner had swapped the chassis for another Class 47. Is there a class 47 with directional lighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Not so far as I am aware from Hornby, factory-fitted, but others may know better. Vi-Trains did include it on their class 47 as far as I remember. Other than the lighting, is the chassis exactly as per sheet 309E? It is possible that a Vi-Trains chassis would fit under a Hornby body as both emanate from Lima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 It's not a V-trains chassis - it says Hornby on it! The chassis corresponds to the diagram on sheet 309E apart from the lighting which appears to be factory-fitted. This loco was first released in 2007, and the train set was released in 2008. I have not got the catalogue for that year. Might be an idea to check the catalogue entry and see if it says directional lighting for the non-train set release? Sometimes, the non-train set versions of locos have a higher spec, like a working pantograph and directional lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 As far as I am aware, none of the 'main range' single/train pack/train set ex-Lima class 47 loco's has been equipped with directional lighting. A very early version of Hornby's own 47 did have directional lighting but if it is that loco chassis you have, the X8029/X8461 would fit and you say they don't. R1099 is described by Hattons as being a mail-order set so it will not be in a catalogue. If it was a special commission, lighting could have been specified although I very much doubt it because, as you say, sets invariably contain the cheapest elements to keep the overall price down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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