Lack of factory 'Stay Alive' options on Hornby decoders.

[Chrissaf]

Its really nasty of Hornby to not include the stay-alive wiring... To upgrade needs expert electronic soldering skills and the appropiate soldering iron ( not the general purpose one in your toolbox ) Replacing the DCC is not cheap, and buyer beware that just buying an aftermarket standards compliant DCC module may not work with Hornby branded controllers . . .

Having found this out its really, really, really, put me off purchasing a Hornby Digital Train set... Its partly my own fault for thinking after the Zero-1 fiasco, Hornby surely would get it right the next time round.

[ColinB]

Most decoders work with modern Hornby controllers, so why limit yourself to Hornby? Hornby make decent steam locos, rolling stock and scale buildings, oh and the odd really good diesel loco. I will say no more as this is the Hornby forum.

[walkingthedog]

I agree with Colin. If you think Hornby decoders are rubbish don't buy them. 

[Yelrow]

well, i wonder how many of us use stay alive. I have none, nor the need for any. If Hornby thought there was a massive market, they would have surely included this. It would not have added much to the price.

[ellocoloco]

34 DCC locomotives form Hornby, Roco, Mehano and others, each equipped with a decoder from either Hornby, ESU, Lenz or others.

 

No stay alives, no problems.

 

You don't need expert electronic soldering skills to clean track!

 

(I tried googling Zero-1 fiasco, but the internet doesn't appear to have heard of it - maybe it just needed an appropriate soldering iron!)

[ColinB]

Stay alive is useful if you have short wheelbase 0-6-0 locos and I must admit I have fitted it to old Ringfield based locos where the pickups aren't that good. Also with some decoders that are not very tolerant to a missing DCC signal they are very useful. TTS decoders suffer a lot from this resetting whenever they get a bad signal, so yes "stay alive" would be very useful on these. Now the downside. It makes it very difficult to read CV values with a lot of "stay alive" circuits fitted, the only one I have found that has no effect is the Zimo sound modules. If you have electrofrog points, clean and perfectly level track then probably there is no need for "stay alive". Usually after a while the track warps a bit and a lot of 4-4-0 locos pivot on their wheels on points and the tender pickups are on a bend so they don't work that well, it is very useful. I have some locos with it, some without. Some decoders, without "stay alive" seem to be the more tolerant to bad DCC signals than others. To add "stay alive" to TTS decoders you do need expert soldering skills and a really good iron. If you have neither you will either bridge a track between signals or worst case lift the PCB track. As for Hornby I don't want to dwell on this too long, because people get upset, they will never be in the same league as primary decoder manufacturers, because it is not their primary business, so probably investing in "stay alive" is not worth the effort. They can make more by putting that effort into something they know and are good at, making locos.

[walkingthedog]

To solve the problem of points warping, add a track pin as near to the  centre as possible. Works a treat. When I had an OO layout even the tiny 0-4-0 Peckett crossed points slowly without a stutter. 

[ColinB]

I must admit I have started screwing them down, but Peco ones seem to be prone to warping. I don't know if it is the plastic they use. I must admit I was just using it as an example. I think on most of my locos that have "stay alive" it came with the decoder. On some I used the YouChoos special circuit. I did try the locos with and without it, because people said it was a waste of time and I did find it made a noticeable difference. On a LaisDCC decoder it did make a noticeable difference on a LMS 4-4-0 compound. I must admit if it wasn't the issue of reading CV values, I would fit it to everything, if definitely doesn't make things worse.

[96RAF]

@david ginger

There is no mandate in NMRA rules for stay alives (which is a trademarked name by the way, similar to keep alives, current keepers, etc) so there is absolutley no need for Hornby to incorporate them. They are another electronic fad to flog expensive modules, that most folk could make for pennies.

 

Ranting about Hornby on the forum is a waste of time, unless you are just wanting to stir up members.

 

Hornby does not read this forum. It is here for members to discuss things, not for Hornby to answer complaints. If you want to complain write or call customer services.

 

Zero 1 required the use of a soldering iron to set addresses by bridging pads on the decoder. Adding a stay alive (I don’t use them) using the decoder edge pads is no more difficult than any basic soldering task.

 

I suggest you read the forum rules and guidelines before venting your spleen next time.

[ColinB]

Sorry we have to differ, as my previous post says I can fully understand why Hornby don't fit them, but they are not a fad they are quite usefull especially using the examples I used earlier. Quite a lot of modern decoders already have them fitted and generally these decoders are about the same price as a Hornby one. The YouChoos one to the uninformed looks a bit expensive, but when you analyse what is on the board you can understand why it costs so much. As to their effect, I read a ton of articles on them, I read some guy saying they are a waste of time so I did my own tests. They definitely improve running which if you analyse what they do is quite obvious. Hornby don't fit them because it is probably a redesign of their decoder and they think leave it to the deocder designers and pick up the technology at a later date, as I say Hornby's primary aim is to design locos. Also the issue of not reading CV values because the capacitor does not have enough time to charge up during a programming cycle, is an issue. It is a useful tool and nobody should be putting people off from using it, but as I say know its limitations. The TTS decoders would definitely work better with them.