Convert to DCC

[Hotpot]

I have the Hornby Flying Scott train set R1152. It says DCC ready. I'm guessing it needs another part. Can you advise me what part number I need. Also if I buy one of the sound cards, will that also make it DCC as well, or do I need the two parts?

[Chrissaf]

The part you are referring to is called a DCC Decoder. Being a Hornby FS loco, the decoder needs to be the NEM652 8 Pin variety. Hornby's R8249 (non sound, basic four function) decoder is 8 Pin as well as Hornby's range of TTS sound decoders. Any branded NEM652 8 pin decoder will fit.

 

Also, note this. The decoder socket in a 'DCC Ready' locomotive will have a 'DC Bypass' PCB plugged into it. You remove the 'DC Bypass' PCB and replace it with the DCC Decoder 8 pin plug. Keep the removed 'DC Bypass' plug safe somewhere. It can be used to revert the loco back to normal DC working should you need to perform 'fault diagnosis' or decide to sell the loco on but keep the decoder.

 

Just to clarify. A decoder is either motor and lights control only. Or it is motor, lights and sound. The sound decoders replace the normal motor and lights decoders they are not 'as well as'. Or put another way, you have one or the other but not both.

 

I'm no steam enthusiast, but I believe the Hornby TTS sound decoder suited to the FS is R8106

 

Looking at your posting history. Your questions so far, all relate to DC Analogue train sets. and given the basic level of this question. I mention these further comments just in case you were unaware.

 

Converting an existing DC Analogue train-set to DCC working is more than just installing a decoder into the loco.

 

• Firstly, you need a DCC controller to replace your DC Analogue ones.
• Secondly, you need to replace or modify the train set provided track power connectors for DCC friendly ones. This means replacing R602, R8206 and/or R8201 connector products with either R8241 or R8242 track power connectors.
• Thirdly, you need to fit R8232 DCC Clips to all the points on your layout [assuming all Hornby track products have been used].

 

You might benefit from reading Chapters 5 and 6 in my downloadable 'Getting Started' PDF guide. The guide can be downloaded from the 2nd sticky post down at the top of the 'General Discussion' forum index.

 

If you do decide to implement a full DCC upgrade to your layout, also note this. Do not purchase a DCC decoder based just on price. Not all DCC controllers offer the same level of functionality.

 

Particularly if you want to adopt sound for your locos, you want a DCC controller that can control the full range of functions from Function zero [F0] to Function 28 [F28]. Not all DCC controllers can, some cheaper controllers can only control F0 to F8 or F16.

 

You also ideally need a controller that can amend at least CVs from CV1 to CV255. Some more advanced controllers can amend CVs from 1 to CV1024. The ability to amend decoder CVs can in some circumstances be a critical need to resolve some DCC operational issues. So buying a cheap DCC controller with limited CV capabilities can be a false economy.

[Hotpot]

Thank you for your answer. It is very helpful. Based on your answer, I may have made a mistake, as a few days ago I bought the  'HORNBY Mixed Traffic Digital Train Set with Siding R1236'. I haven't received it yet, so I don't know the DCC controler off hand, but I guess it is one of the cheap ones you warned me against. For now, so long as it works the two loco's that come with the set, & my Flying Scotsman it will get me started. I do plan to add around 3 more Loco's & a little more track to the layout. I moved house many years ago & only now do I have a little room, hence my new interest. In the future I will have a lot more space & then I will upgrade to better equipment.

[Rog RJ]

The controller is the Hornby Select.  Some think it's quite a good starter controller, especially if it has the latest firmware installed.

[Chrissaf]

.....but I guess it is one of the cheap ones you warned against.

 

No not necessarily. It depends upon which firmware revision the Select has got loaded in it

 

As Rog says, the 'Mixed Traffic' set contains a Hornby Select DCC controller. Subject to how long the set has been sitting on the seller's shelves. It may or may not have the latest firmware. I will tell you how to tell the firmware version in a minute. But the key thing is that the Select controller supports 'return to base' firmware upgrades [not all non Hornby branded controllers do].

 

If the set is very new, it will likely have the latest Select Mark II controller loaded with version 2.0 firmware. If it is a little older or very old then it may have firmware between version 1.0 and 1.6.

 

If it is less than version 1.6 then I recommend that it is upgraded to version 1.6 ... if it is less than version 1.5, then I would definitely arrange to have it upgraded.

 

• Version 1.5 added full support for Hornby TTS sound decoders F0 - F28
• Version 1.6 added support to write all CVs from CV1 to CV255

 

The current installed firmware is displayed as the very first number to briefly appear on the Select screen as it is being powered up. Expect to see a number between 10 and 20. At the time of writing, the latest version is 1.6 [16] or 2.0 [20] - both the same. These latest versions completely transform the user experience of the Select controller and add the ability to write (not read) all CVs up to CV255. As well as access to the full F0 - F28 range of functions. These later versions also improve compatibility with a wider range of non Hornby branded decoders.

 

The upgrade charge is typically £15 plus your sending postage costs. You need to get a 'returns number' from Hornby Customer Services - see 'Contact Us' link at the very bottom of the page.

 

If you do arrange to get your Select firmware upgraded, then you will need both the Select version 1.5 full manual and the version 1.6 addendum manual. As the operation of your Select (how to use it) will be completely different in certain areas of operation compared to your current firmware version.

 

You can download these two manual PDFs from here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/index/cat/12/

 

If nothing appears to happen, check your nominated browser download folder for the files as they can download silently in the background.

 

Note that the Digital Set should have a R8241 DCC friendly power track in it. This should be the one you use on the layout to attach power. Remove any and all previous DC Analogue power connection tracks and clips as these will distort and corrupt the DCC digital signal if left installed on the layout. The Digital set will (should) also include some R8232 DCC Point Clips in it, but you may need to buy more. They come in packs of 20.

 

[Hotpot]

Thank you Rog & Chrisaf. I will let you know what firmware the controler comes with once I receive it.

[Hotpot]

I've been let down on the Mixed Traffic train set, so now I have my eye on a second hand 'Somerset Belle' Digital. So I have two questions, is this a good digital set to start with? I already have the Flying Scotsman Analogue set, but I have upgraded the 'Scotsman Engine' to DCC. What tracks would I need to make an 'inner oval track?

[Chrissaf]

What tracks would I need to make an 'inner oval track?

 

Sets come with Hornby Radius 3 ovals. So to create an inner oval to that, you need Radius 2 curves.

 

Look to the track geometry page for the track part numbers. The linked page is 'interactive' and details all the current Hornby track pieces that are available.

 

Hover the mouse cursor over the X icon for details, click the X icon to go to the product page.

 

Note, if you get a '404 page not found' error the first time you click the track X icon, just click the X again for a second try. There seems to be a website bug that returns an excessive number of '404 page not found' error codes, when the page in question is actually present and not missing.

 

[2e0dtoeric]

You might find that your Scotsman will not go round radius 2 curves. I think, if you have the room, you would be better calling your existing track the 'inner', and adding an 'outer' of radius 4.

[Fishmanoz]

And given your Belle set is second hand, that increases the likelihood the Select will not be latest firmware.

[Mac-70]

The Sommerset Belle is an excellant DCC starter set, the only thing i would add too what Fishmanoz has said a bove (which can be updated through Hornby at the cost of postage), would be the power supply that you will get with the trainset will be 1amp.

 

If it where me and i was thinking of a train set with DCC controller, i would go for a more up to date one. I think Hornby has done a way with the 1amp power supply and now supply the 4amp version in newer train sets. As for the Select it's a good controller and i still use mine with the Elite controller.

[Yelrow]

Mac, agree, nowt wrong with select, especially, as Walkabout., with Elite. I have 3 of them.

[Hotpot]

Thanks everyone for your help & advise. I am struggling to find a newer digital set. The few that were around when I ordered mine have dried up, or way over the Hornby price, hence looking secondhand.

[Yelrow]

Have a look at Gumtree.

[Mac-70]

Do you really need a train set? As in a cheap loco very little track and ofcourse the controller. If your only really needing the controller then that's all i would buy (probably skip the select and go for an elite if it was me). Then buy flexi track as you need it, less joints. 

[Flashbang]

I have to say the mention in some posts to a so called "DC Bypass plug" is very misleading IMO!

DC Bypass? Where is the DC going if its being bypassed when the plug is fitted?

 

It would be far, far better IMO to refer to the actual DCC Blanking Plug (correct name - Google it!) as a "DC Only Operation plug" when referenced in replies and basic information to new/novice DCC users!

If the "DC only operation plug" is in place, the loco is DC operation only (DCC Ready). Once it is removed from the locos PCB socket the loco will no longer operate on any system DC or DCC! When it is replaced by the correct type of DCC Decoder (Note it is not a Chip - as frequently those come from the fish & chip shop and are often with Salt and Vinegar added) the loco becomes DCC Fitted and can run on DCC powered rails.  Also, so long as CV29 values haven't been adjusted, the the loco will run on DC powered rails too.

Note. if a sound decoder is fitted (which includes all Motor and Function controls) only one or two basic sounds will play while the loco is operated on DC. If your DCC system allows all Functions F0 to F28 to be operated, then all available sounds will play as required.

[Hotpot]

Thanks again for the replies. All answers are noted.

Today I started to install the sound decoder into my Flying Scotsman. All is going to plan apart from installing the actual decoder with speaker. I know how to intall the plug, but when I do, where will the speaker fit? I can't see anywhere the speaker will fit.  The decoder is an R8106. The Flying Scorsman set is the  R2441.

I have Googled & You-Tubed, & if the answer is out there, I never came across it. The nearest is to cut the speaker wires & extend to the tender???

[96RAF]

You may be able to sit a small cube speaker on the front chassis step like I did in a Merchant Navy or extend the speaker wires into the tender. The decoder is stuffed in the smokebox.

If extending the speaker wires do it at the speaker end as the decoder pads are small and very close together.

 

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[Hotpot]

Thanks you for getting back, & the photo. I think I am resigned to a 'cube' speaker (something I hadn't heard of until earlier today). Is one make better than another?

[Hotpot]

RAF96. In your picture I can see the cube speaker. Is it in a small enclosure, or is it as it comes? My cube speaker came without an enclosure. Can it be installed as it is or is a small enclosure needed?

[Mist22]

I recently bought a used loco which had been converted to DCC using a hard wired ZTC 214 loco decoder. I wasn't able to run it on my track which has a Select controller. My other 2 Hornby locos that came with a Hornby DCC set run normally. The "new"loco has been tested on another track and works properly. I've been told that the Select (version 1.6) is probably unable to work with the ZTC decoder. If I fit a Hornby R8249 should that be OK with the Select please?

[96RAF]

Absolutely no reason why a Select should not operate a ZTC decoder. Hornby test all their kit with most other manufacturers products as possible.

As you are at v1.6, use your Select to perform a reset of the decoder (most decoders write value 8 to CV8 but check your ZTC paperwork in case it is different), then see if it works on the default address of 3. If so readdress it to your chosen ID.

[Rog RJ]

As you have the Select with the 1.6 firmware version you should be able to adjust CV settings, so I suggest you try writing a value of 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder to default values.  If the reset works, the decoder should then have the address of 3 and it will hopefully respond to that address.  Their is a possibility that writing 8 to CV8 is not the correct value to use though as some decoders use different values for resetting.

 

RAF posted while I was typing.

[Mist22]

Thanks to both of you. I've tried the reset but sadly still no reponse. I did check the CV number and value on the internet which confirmed CV8=8. Any other thoughts please before I try an R8249? I only need basic control. No lights or sound, just the motor with any luck! 

[Howbi]

 If I fit a Hornby R8249 should that be OK with the Select please?

Yes, definitely......you should consider soldering in an 8 pin socket to facilitate future changes of decoder rather than hard wiring.........HB