Hornby to Peco Points [DCC Layout].

[geejbee]

Hello.

I am considering replacing some of my Hornby 00 gauge standard points to the equivalent PECO.

There seems to be quite a bewildering range of PECO.

I already use PECO point motors so I just need a direct replacement for my DCC layout.

Can anyone advise please?

Thanks

Grahame

[Brew Man]

If it's DCC as you say, then I believe you need the 'Electrofrog' ones. These operate the same as the Hornby ones with the little clips added, unless someone comes along to say otherwise. I puzzled over the differences myself for a while. Other than that it the code 100 type that are compatible with Hornby.

[geejbee]

Hello.

Thanks for the reply.

Can the little hornby clip things be ued with the peco insulated frog, or is there another way to convert insulated to electro frog just as a matter of interest?

[Rog RJ]

Using the Hornby point clips doesn't convert the points to electrofrog, there is still a big plastic frog on the insulfrog points.

[Brew Man]

No, I said the 'Electrofrog' are the ones he wants. Is that not right? I only mentioned the clips in relation to Hornby points.

EDIT: Sorry, you were answering the OP's post.

[geejbee]

Are, it seems I will have a problem then because I am told that electro frog points aren't available in the setrack range.

[Mac-_-]

Have a look at this Geejbee might answer a few of your questions.

[Chrissaf]

These previous threads will fill in the majority of your knowledge gaps regarding PECO vs Hornby track. Look for the posts with my name within the linked thread.

This previous thread discusses Hornby insulfrog points vs PECO Electrofrog points.

Choosing points

This thread below describes the PECO track product code numbering scheme and describes how to interpret the track type from their product codes.

Another B2B question.

These links below will take you to the various filtered lists on the PECO website for the listed products.

Peco ST (Set Track) Code 100 Track Parts

https://peco-uk.com/collections/peco/setrack+100

 Peco SL & SL-E (StreamLine) Code 100 Track Parts

https://peco-uk.com/collections/peco/100+oo-ho-16-5mm

 Peco SL & SL-E (StreamLine) Code 83 Track parts

https://peco-uk.com/collections/peco/oo-ho-16-5mm+83

 Peco SL & SL-E (StreamLine) Code 75 Track Parts

https://peco-uk.com/collections/peco/oo-ho-16-5mm+75

[Chrissaf]

Is there another way to convert insulated to electro frog just as a matter of interest?

 

 

An Electrofrog point has a metal frog. An Insulfrog has a plastic frog. Therefore there is no add-on product that can convert one to the other. A point is either made as one type or the other type at the factory.

The function of the Hornby R8232 DCC point clips is to convert an 'Isolating Point' to a 'Non-isolating' point. The term 'Isolating' in this context has got nothing to do with the 'Insulfrog' term. These are two completely different aspect of point design.

Hornby points are 'Isolating' points. This means that they act as electrical switches and electrically isolate the route that the point is not switched to.

This design is not conducive to DCC, where you want all track live all the time. The Hornby R8232 DCC point clips over-ride the 'Isolating' design of the Hornby point and makes all routes through the point live, regardless of the point thrown direction.

The more usual way of using PECO points in a DCC layout regardless of whether they are Electrofrog or not, is to add lots of additional DCC power feeds to the track from the DCC controller. This is termed a DCC BUS. Google DCC BUS for more information on this concept, or have a look at this recent thread.

Setting up DCC for multiple tracks - beginner

[Chrissaf]

Just to correct what appears to be another misunderstanding in the content of previous posts.

PECO ST points are exactly the same as Hornby points and are both 'Insulfrog' and 'Isolating' points.

PECO SL E points are DCC friendly only in so much as they are not 'Isolating'. However, you have to understand that when using PECO 'Electrofrogs' YOU MUST place 'Insulating Rail Joiners' [iRJ] on the rails leading into the FROG V. The only exception to this is where the point leads to an isolated siding track.

And since IRJ's are added to the point, the track beyond the point can become electrically isolated. This means that although PECO Electrofrog points are DCC friendly, they still need additional track power feeds to power track layout power dead spots. PECO Electrofrog points are best suited to a DCC BUS power distribution scheme as documented in previous posts in this thread.

You must not fit Hornby R8232 DCC point clips to PECO Electrofrog points else you will get an instant 'Short Circuit'. You can technically fit the Hornby R8232 DCC clips to PECO ST points, but personally I would always go for a proper DCC BUS wired solution rather than using the Hornby clips.

[Mike_P]

Peco SL points are isolating - the dead frog SL ones in the same way as Hornby points , the SL-E (Electrofrog) ones in that both rails of the track that the point is not set for being the same polarity, and hence the need for isolating joiners on the rails leading from the frog if the line is anything more than a dead end siding or if it a dead end siding and is to properly powered for a dcc layout. Peco have also now introduced SL-U Unifrog points which have a metal frog but as supplied work like a SL point with the frog being dead but can be wired to be live like an electrofrog point.

[Chrissaf]

Which is precisely what I said.... I was discussing Electrofrog points.

"PECO SL E points are DCC friendly only in so much as they are not 'Isolating'. However, you have to understand that when using PECO 'Electrofrogs'..........."

SL-U Unifrog points at the time of writing are only available as Code 83 rail in 00 scale.

[Going Spare]

The biggest problem is geometry. Unless you are prepared to make what could be quite significant alterations to your layout, you can use only Peco Setrack (ST-coded) points as direct replacements for Hornby as Streamline (SL-coded) points are curved to larger radii.

[geejbee]

2 Lots of helpful and interesting info. Thank you all very much.

[81F]

I hope you don't mind me trying to give a simple answer (which may repeat some of the above thread:

The direct replacements for Hornby Standard points are from the SetTrack Range (part numbers beginning with ST).

As said above these are not available in electrofrog versions and are therefore isolating points. However, unlike Hornby the plastic part of the frog is where the two rails come together is much smaller than on Hornby points.

My layout uses both Streamline (SL) and SetTrack (ST) points but on different parts of the layout where the difference in geometry is not a problem and is operated using DCC.

At first I started off with good intentions and used electrofrog Streamline points at first, but as I extended the layout I gave up with electrofrog points and used insulfrog versions with no problems. 

Personally I cannot see the point of the point clips if you are fixing your track permanently as it is just as straight forward to put a feed into the siding from your main bus (assuming you are not using electrofrog points). Indeed some of my points do not have this extra feed and isolate when the point is switched against them and they all work perfectly well. Moreover, without power it is impossible to have a derailment caused by a point being set against the train.