Tender driven locos.

[Blackbird]

The Tender Drive loco is part of the evolution of model railways. The Ringfield motor design, originally used by Hornby Doublo, then incorporated by Triang/Hornby and Lima, proved to be a very efficient motor with direct drive gears, compared to the worm

 

drive (0X4) motor drives. The basic ringfield could be easily incorporated to 2 or 3 axle diesels and 3 axle tenders. Hence simplification of production. Although the ringfield motor was used in some locos (ie the Castle class), it was to bulky for most types.

 

'Evolution', lead to the use of improved (smaller) loco drive motors.

[Lakes_Express]

I have a tender-drive Fowler 4F, which Iam not inclined to abandon for a loco-drive version for the time being. Having cleaned up the tender-drive and loco pickups, it runs quite smoothly at low speeds. However, the loco's driving wheels have taken to

 

locking and skidding quite badly. Has anyone successfully cured this problem; and have any tips to offer, before I begin to dismantle the loco chassis?

[2e0dtoeric]

Lakes - check for muck where the axles go through the chassis, bent con-rods, muck in/on the pivot bolts, etc.

Try turning the wheels very slowly by hand, to see if there is a tight spot, or whether they are stiff all the time.

It might also be

 

the 'quartering' that has slipped out of alignment.

[poliss]

Might just need a tiny drop of oil on the motion.

[da4472vid]

Lakes_Express said:

I have a tender-drive Fowler 4F, which Iam not inclined to abandon for a loco-drive version for the time being. Having cleaned up the tender-drive and loco pickups, it runs quite smoothly at low speeds. However, the loco's

driving wheels have taken to locking and skidding quite badly. Has anyone successfully cured this problem; and have any tips to offer, before I begin to dismantle the loco chassis?

see that always happend to me

[81F]

da4472vid said:

are the bottom is all ready there 0-6-0s just a littel modification needed for the Dean Goods
="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=dean+goods&start=114&hl=en&sa=X&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=SqKNqRftlINFZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Prints-Goods-locomotive-Steam/dp/B001NIB6A6&docid=0CMfWpXk7DG3rM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YmNzXIaAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=77LoT474KceD8gPHtZT9Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=596&vpy=3&dur=2600&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=114&ty=133&sig=112463214718074166888&page=8&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429">http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=dean+goods&start=114&hl=en&sa=X&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=SqKNqRftlINFZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Prints-Goods-locomotive-Steam/dp/B001NIB6A6&docid=0CMfWpXk7DG3rM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YmNzXIaAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=77LoT474KceD8gPHtZT9Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=596&vpy=3&dur=2600&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=114&ty=133&sig=112463214718074166888&page=8&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:114,i:89
also

ive noteset this odd loco ="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=County+Class+4-4-2T&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=ER1jQY8KIxrfTM:&imgrefurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/ChurchCount.html&docid=DOO4DXx2OgrzkM&imgurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/CountyTank.jpg&w=797&h=275&ei=lbPoT4DIHseu8APcn9SzCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=598&vpy=186&dur=1380&hovh=132&hovw=383&tx=234&ty=84&sig=112463214718074166888&page=1&tbnh=65&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429">http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=County+Class+4-4-2T&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=ER1jQY8KIxrfTM:&imgrefurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/ChurchCount.html&docid=DOO4DXx2OgrzkM&imgurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/CountyTank.jpg&w=797&h=275&ei=lbPoT4DIHseu8APcn9SzCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=598&vpy=186&dur=1380&hovh=132&hovw=383&tx=234&ty=84&sig=112463214718074166888&page=1&tbnh=65&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:82

[81F]

81F said:

da4472vid said:

are the bottom is all ready there 0-6-0s just a littel modification needed for the Dean Goods
="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=dean+goods&start=114&hl=en&sa=X&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=SqKNqRftlINFZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Prints-Goods-locomotive-Steam/dp/B001NIB6A6&docid=0CMfWpXk7DG3rM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YmNzXIaAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=77LoT474KceD8gPHtZT9Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=596&vpy=3&dur=2600&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=114&ty=133&sig=112463214718074166888&page=8&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429">http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=dean+goods&start=114&hl=en&sa=X&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=SqKNqRftlINFZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Prints-Goods-locomotive-Steam/dp/B001NIB6A6&docid=0CMfWpXk7DG3rM&imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YmNzXIaAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&w=300&h=300&ei=77LoT474KceD8gPHtZT9Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=596&vpy=3&dur=2600&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=114&ty=133&sig=112463214718074166888&page=8&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:114,i:89
also

ive noteset this odd loco ="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=County+Class+4-4-2T&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=ER1jQY8KIxrfTM:&imgrefurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/ChurchCount.html&docid=DOO4DXx2OgrzkM&imgurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/CountyTank.jpg&w=797&h=275&ei=lbPoT4DIHseu8APcn9SzCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=598&vpy=186&dur=1380&hovh=132&hovw=383&tx=234&ty=84&sig=112463214718074166888&page=1&tbnh=65&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429">http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=County+Class+4-4-2T&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=ER1jQY8KIxrfTM:&imgrefurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/ChurchCount.html&docid=DOO4DXx2OgrzkM&imgurl=http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/GreatWestern/Narrowgauge/CountyTank.jpg&w=797&h=275&ei=lbPoT4DIHseu8APcn9SzCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=598&vpy=186&dur=1380&hovh=132&hovw=383&tx=234&ty=84&sig=112463214718074166888&page=1&tbnh=65&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:82

[81F]

Tried to reply to da4472vid's posts but won't let me add anything, so here goes. The second loco is a County tank - I've always wanted one of these. In their later form they received extended bunkers and curves just in front of the cylinders so that they

 

looked vey much like the 61XX prarie.

 

Indeed I have the body of a hornby prarie purged on one of the redundent tender drive 440 counties on a spare corner of my layout!.

 

If I can source a suitable set of rear wheels I mighttry to cobble one together

 

using the Railroad county chassis as soon as I can obtain one.

[Flashbang]

Hi

While I haven't read four pages of text or looked at the supplied hyper-links, I do know that Tender drive locos were a thing of the past! Manly from the 1980 to early 2000 period. Modern locos are in the main loco drive. There are a few exceptions

 

where cheaper costs are required. But most are now loco drive.

 

Tender drive locos are always Ringfield motor powered, earlier models had the rather poorer three pole motors fitted while more recent ones had the better five pole Ringfield motor.

 

Older

 

three pole Ringfield motors are notoriously poor performers. They often fail to start or just don't run well unless near full rail volts are supplied to them. Skidding or non turning of the locos driving wheels was a common visible defect of this type of propulsion!

 

 

 

Conversion to DCC is possible for all types but the criteria is the loco/motor combination MUST perform faultlessly before conversion.

[poliss]

Why didn't the locomotive want to sit down? Because it had a tender behind. Boom boom!

[Postman Prat]

 

You're getting as bad as Graskie!!!

 

poliss said:

 

Why didn't the locomotive want to sit down? Because it had a tender behind. Boom boom!

[da4472vid]

i didn't know poliss was basil brush or has he just been whatching to much CTV

[walkingthedog]

You were right first time david, he's Basil Brush.

[Graskie]

Just give him the brush off!

[81F]

In reply to "Conversion to DCC is possible for all types but the criteria is the loco/motor combination MUST perform faultlessly before conversion."

 

Providing you can totally isolate the motor from the wheels and find space for the Chip.

[da4472vid]

hate to say it but i dont think in another 10 years the tender drive locos will still run.

[81F]

The ex Airfix ones will probably not but with the ease of servicing and spare consumables (carbon brushes/traction tyres) I will probably be able to keep mine going for that long providing I don't burn out the armitures.

[5735guy]

Tender Drives have serviced many of us well over the years however since Locomotive Drive has come along several weaknesses have been cured such as noise, locomotive gear locking up and stalling.

Locomotive Drive is the way ahead and to revert to Tender

 

Drive in any way would be a retrograde step.

[Graskie]

The original locos were all loco drive before tender drive came along in an attempt, I think, together with the awful grey plastic valve gear as well, to keep prices down. What goes around comes around, for the better in this case.

[da4472vid]

on thing you could do with old non runners is ,(providing that you have the room)

make a model of the NRM with a glass roof so you can still ues them or this

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=barrys+scrapyard&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=651&tbm=isch&tbnid=7GNjHQ1QTZjOtM:&imgrefurl=http://www.deborahirwin.plus.com/Preserved%2520locos/end_of_the_line_except_for_the_l.htm&docid=F5N2xvO3J-a0BM&imgurl=http://www.deborahirwin.plus.com/Preserved%252520locos/diawodhamsscrapyard%2525202.jpg&w=1077&h=602&ei=A2H8T_KaBKnL0QWcy_y0Bw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=302&vpy=62&dur=4487&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=200&ty=96&sig=112463214718074166888&page=2&tbnh=112&tbnw=201&start=12&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:12,i:127

if

 

you want to on a spare sidding on the layout

[poliss]

Please stop posting these massive web addresses. They stretch the board and break it. Why couldn't you have posted the shorter version?

http://www.deborahirwin.plus.com/Preserved%20locos/end_of_the_line_except_for_the_l.htm

[da4472vid]

ive only been on the web for 9 months

[81F]

You could always couple them up to a non motorized tender and use them for double headding. Once I have received a spare cab and a few other bits I will be joining up a spare Hornby catle body with a Hawkesworth County tender and my old Airfix castle chassis.

 

Having

 

said that my castles will pull a five coach train (the maximum allowable on my layout) with ease so a double header with only four is going to look decidedly odd!

[5735guy]

Graskie said:

The original locos were all loco drive before tender drive came along in an attempt, I think, together with the awful grey plastic valve gear as well, to keep prices down. What goes around comes around, for the better in this

case.

Indeed I remember the first Triang Hornby Britannia I had was Locomotve Drive.

[R32 Gaming]

You could always couple them up to a non motorized tender and use them for double headding. Once I have received a spare cab and a few other bits I will be joining up a spare Hornby catle body with a Hawkesworth County tender and my old Airfix castle chassis.

 

Having

 

said that my castles will pull a five coach train (the maximum allowable on my layout) with ease so a double header with only four is going to look decidedly odd!

I'm struggling a bit. I have a hornby 28xx , and is tender driven. The motor is in good condition and I have replaced the traction tires , but the test der wheelslips with a small train , so it could be the weight of the locomotive itself. Not sure , need advice!