Hornby Compatible Catenary

[Trains1707822545]

I understand there is 2 manufactures of Catenary, but are any of those Code 100 compatible, because it seems that there always used with Code 75.

[Tony57]

Hi

Both the Peco and Dapol catenary systems can be used on code 100 track, they can be used with or without wires. The wires themselves are thin so the loco pantographs have to be wired so they do not touch the wires when moving.

[The son of Triangman]

Tri-ang used to make a catenary system, Hornby relaunched it in the 1980's with different masts of a more modern UK design. You might be lucky and find one of these systems on the likes of Ebay, they are more robust with robust wires.

[ColinB]

Thank you for the information on the Peco and Dapol Pantographs, I naturally assumed they worked like the old Triang/Hornby ones, but obviously not. I was thinking of using them on my layout, but I am probably not now.

[Tony57]

I looked at them for the very same reason as a possible modern system but I was put off them because you have to drill holes through the base board using a nut on the underside bolt them to the base board, I did buy some wires to see if they could be used with Triang masts but they were so thin they were not usable for what I thought I could use them for.

There is a guy who is making 3D printed catenary masts I have been in contact with who may be modifying the masts he currently makes so they are compatible with the old Triang phase 2 wire system, it is early days on that issue.

[ellocoloco]

'it seems that there always used with Code 75'.

I would guess this seems the case because anyone bothered to erect catenary would probably use a more realistic track profile.

[Tony57]

Hi

I am surprised on how many makes of HO scale working catenary systems are available compared with OO scale. I wonder if it is because in Europe they modernised much earlier than we did here in the UK, so european modellers were able to model the railways they saw because their manufacturers made the scale equipment needed to mirror real life.

As the Hornby brand own at least one company it makes operating catenary equipment for, it would not cost much to make British style masts and gantries in OO scale and use the catenary wires from the sister company to allow UK modellers the option of a working catenary system. Locomotives made with working pantographs could be an issue due to DCC but this can be solvable.

Modellers of tomorrow will want to model railways of today, most are now powered by electricity fed through overhead wires, so they will need a system that is easy to retro fit, looks like the real thing as far as possible, be available for more than a decade and have locos and emu sets with working pantographs just like the real thing.

[96RAF]

I just saw a FB post linking to an eBay listing for some 00 gantries and masts that purport to be compatible with Peco wires.

As usual on FB you can never re-find such things when you need them.

Edit - found it. https://www.facebook.com/groups/177371052954488/permalink/874641126560807/

The linked to advert also has Dapol wires and a full range of this OLE kit.

[sagaguy]

The only working catenary system that i know in the UK is Trix last made in the 1960s.It is modelled on the Woodhead 1500vDC system.The shows one of my Trix EM1s which actually draws traction current from the wire and returns through the track base.With its own cotroller i could operate two trains on the same track as they are seperate systems.This is an earlier picture,the catenary is now installed around the layout and some of the sidings and loops as well.The system also allows modified Triang EM2s and Dublo AL1s although obviously,they should be on 25kv catenary but beggars can`t be choosey.The main thing is that it works and works well.

[The son of Triangman]

Sagaguy, Tri-ang made a system and Hornby did in the late 1980's/90's. The Tri-ang system had a more continental look to the masts, the Hornby version was a revamp of the Tri-ang system but with some new UK style single masts. Both systems were fully operational and robust enough to use. Catalouge number for the Hornby single UK mast pack was R.290

[96RAF]

Tram modellers often use live overhead power. Theirs usually operates on model railway three rail logic with overhead being live and the two rails being common negative. This allows for simple reversing over a Wye. How reliable this would be for DCC I don’t know as contact might be sporadic and sparking twixt power line and panto could corrupt the signal.

For DCC so as to be able to run other locos one would have to have the live overhead strapped to one ground rail via a frog juicer or RLM such that when a panto loco was reversed on track the phasing would switch to match.

[sagaguy]

Sagaguy, Tri-ang made a system and Hornby did in the late 1980's/90's. The Tri-ang system had a more continental look to the masts, ..............

 

 

Yes and a real pantograph ripper it was!, stamped metal catenary, masts that bore no resemblence to British practice at all.

Ray.

[Rana Temporia]

I don’t think I would want to risk damage to my Tri-ang, Hornby AcHo or Jouef pantographs by actually trying to use them as apart from the Jouef ones, any replacements would be more than a new loco. My preference would be to have them ‘up’ but not touching the wires. Difficult to arrange with them all as the Tri-ang and AcHo ones will reach quite high while the Jouef are smaller.

[96RAF]

The two locos I have with pantos are all quite firmly sprung so contact with an OLE would likely be no problem but I wonder at the robustness and reliability of said pantos for continual running.

Class 90

RNFE 278

[Tony57]

Hi

Triang first introduced the phase 1 catenary system back in 1959.

The first two locomotives with working pantographs were the Green Steeple Cab and the Green and Orange Transcontinental double cab, these were introduced the same year. As Triang had a large overseas empire at the time so am not surprised the masts were non UK in design. The first two locos were non UK in design

The Green EM2 was introduced in 1960

In 1961 the phase 2 catenary system was introduce and as per normal both phases could be joined and used together, the same with standard track, Series 3 track and Super 4 track, there were mast bases for all three types of track.

The AL1 with twin pantographs was introduced in 1964.

It is now almost 30 years since Hornby briefly re-introduced working catenary, a number of electric locos and EMU's have come and gone in model form. is it not time for Hornby to look at the issue again?.

[sagaguy]

Have a look here, A Triang EM2 collecting current from the Trix catenary. I turned the flanges down on the motor bogie wheels to operate over Dublo points without rocking and rolling. I replaced the trailing bogie wheels with modern Hornby coach wheels running in Peco brass bearings and fitted with wiper p/ups for better return to the rails. Some of these are very noisy on tinplate track, next job is to look into that problem.

Ray

[Rana Temporia]

Great stuff Ray!

Who got the Trix equipment? I think Dapol had it first so did it go on to Bachmann? It might be worth them introducing the OH equipment as it obviously works. I think it was Ruffnut who pointed out in a previous thread that it was based on the Woodhead 1500v DC equipment rather than the 25kV standard.

[sagaguy]

Great stuff Ray!

Who got the Trix equipment?

 

 

The Trix catenary was produced for a short while in about 1959 to the early 1960s.It was introduced to complement the Trix EM1(class 76 later). The masts are reasonably difficult to find today but I collected them over the years for this project as I like the idea of a MSL&A line over Woodhead. I have three Triang EM2s(cl77) with turnd down flanges to go through Dubl points without bouncing. I`m just in the process of fitting Trix EM1 pantographs to a Heljan EM2, they are one of the few pantographs that will deal with Trix catenary. Heljan EM1 fitted with Trix pantographs and it really does work!

[Tony57]

Hi Sagaguy

Just wondering have you managed to fit the Trix pantographs to the Heljan EM2, how easy was it to fit please, the reason for asking is I need to replace a couple of Cross arm pantographs on a Transcontinental electric loco and a Triang EM2 which have lost the whole pantograph.

By the way I enjoyed your article in the latest TTRCA Gazette. I love the meccano plate and strip bending machine you used to bend the 1mm piano wire you used as catenary wire to the shape of the track bends.

[sagaguy]

Thanks,i got the pantographs from Martin,the TTRCA spares officer,they come with spacers etc.It`s not too difficult although it`s best to have a good selection of drills.The front two almost line up with the oginal Heljan pantograph,by careful enlarging of the holes and drawing them over slightly,the trix insulators will be inline.After attaching the pantograph onto these,hold it down firmly and spot the holes through the base.once its`s on all insulators,spot the holes for the 10ba fixing screws,you`ll need some longer 10ba csk screws and nuts,do the same for the other one.As to wiring,i remove the plugs from the circuit and wire all the wheel p/ups together because i run on 3 rail so it make no difference.The motor is wired to these wires and the other is wired to the pantographs.That`s about it really,sounds daunting but it`s not really.If you are on facebook,look up Hornby Dublo Enthusiasts page or Hornby Dublo Dreams,there are videos of it running.

Ray.