New B17 and short circuits

[Out Of Puff1707822593]

Hi please excuse the further post, I do find this forum so helpful.

So I'm lucky to have just acquired a B17 DCC Hornby loco. It's new and through ebay and I have some early issues, although I haven't contacted the seller yet as I'm not sure if it's the loco at fault.

The biggest problem is I'm getting quite a lot of short circuits with it, particularly (but not exclusively) over points (sometimes on curves). I have had short circuits with another loco (an old class 08) so I'm not sure it's entirely the new loco but I have an A4 which never short circuits.

The other issue is the B17 seems to struggle to pull longer trains and will get wheel slip with three long coaches. It can judder and seem more unsteady on the track when pulling tender first as well. I hadn't lubricated it yet and wondered if that could have anything to do with it?

I have a double loop layout, with quite a few sidings (and therefore points.) All the points have the Hornby metal pins connected and I have two power clips on curves. I'm using a Select controller with 4A transformer.

Grateful for any ideas.

Thanks!

[Out Of Puff1707822593]

An update - I think I may have diagnosed the cause, but let me know if this seems right. There is a bolt missing, that helps keeps the connection between loco and tender stable. Without this the tender is unstable, jerky and wobbles, hence derailments and I guess short circuits. Does anyone know where I can get such a piece from, because otherwise I'll have to return the whole loco? Thanks so much

[RDS]

Looking closely at your picture and there appears to be a witness mark around the hole that suggests that the screw was fitted at one time. I would contact the seller first to ask because if it is new as the seller has said, the screw should not have been removed.

[Going Spare]

Also, not all the wires leading in to the tender plug look to be properly separated and therefore isolated from each other - are there any stray strands causing momentary short-circuits? Is the visible loco chassis bottom screw fully tightened? Has the loco been worked-on before sale?

[Chrissaf]

Having enlarged the image to get a real close up. You can clearly see that a screw should be there and is missing.

If anybody knows, it will be 'Going Spare'. There is more than likely a Hornby "small parts pack" that contains a compatible screw.

EDIT: There might be something on this page you can use.

https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/hornby_spares_screws.htm

If you can track down the correct Service Sheet, then that should identify the correct screw part number.

[Going Spare]

Unfortunately not. Most of the screws on the loco come with the components that they secure (coupling rods, chassis bottoms, etc) but the plastic drawbar is supplied without either of the screws that secure it and the "small parts" packs seem to be a thing of the past. I doubt the absence of the screw is the cause of the short-circuits, so.......

I would also suggest contacting the seller first and then, if necessary, seek help from Hornby Customer Services but I wouldn't hold out too much hope as their reaction all too often is to the effect that if the part being sought is not a declared replacement part (which it most surprisingly is not), then they can not supply it.

[St1ngr4y]

Without that screw, isn’t the loco pulling the tender (and train) by the wires? Not a desirable situation I would have thought 😔

Ray

[Out Of Puff1707822593]

Yes I think it is pulling the tender by the wires! Thanks for all your thoughts here. It was in sealed plastic inside the Hornby box so it seems less likely it was worked on before. I'll check the wires are separated (I'm pretty sure they are) and talk to the seller. But unless anyone can think of a different approach, I'm assuming I'll have to return it...

[Brew Man]

The words, 'New' and, 'Unused' seem to have an entirely different meaning on eBay from what most people understand.

[ColinB]

Those stepped screws that hold the tender on, generally come with the drawbar or in the screws pack. If you want one, the easiest solution is to go into Peters Spares and look up B17 drawbar or any drawbar that comes with the right screw. Unfortunately I found Peters Spares is not very help in trying to find parts that fit from other locos. Luckily it is either an M2 or M2.5 stepped bolt which if you get really stuck you can order in Stainless from China. Yes I know its China, but as long as you don't mind waiting we work perfectly. I have got a B17 I think, I will go and find out which one it is. Usually the Royal Scot drawbar comes with the right one and it is one of the cheapest since you are going to throw the drawbar away.

[ColinB]

Great the B17 drawbar doesn't come with a screw. I took mine apart it is a M2 stepped screw/bolt. A Royal Scot drawbar should be the right thread although the shoulder is longer,which is probably better anyway. Peters Spares has sold out, try EBay or Lendons.

[Out Of Puff1707822593]

Hi ColinB, thanks for doing this investigation. In the meantime I contacted the seller on ebay and will return the whole unit. Like others on this thread, he wasn't sure all the problems could be attributed to the drawbar, so he wanted to have a look at it. But I appreciate the info on the spares - useful knowledge for similar issues if they come up. Cheers

[ColinB]

No the drawbar wouldn't create a short. It could be it with it moving it has removed the insulation on the wires of the four pin connector so as it moves it occasionally shorts. You have sent it back so not your issue any longer but if it happens with one you can't return a good idea is the buy one of those 4 pin connectors that go in the tender. Lendons do them really cheap and make yourself a "shorting" connector. Then you can disconnect the tender and run the loco on its own. Then you can work out where the short is, loco or tender.