APT E from Rapido models

[ColinB]

I have just ordered a APT E by Rapido models from Rails. Can someone explain to me how a smaller company that makes less models than Hornby can supply basically the same model as Hornby (ok, no pantograph and seats) with sound fitted for less than the Hornby offering.

[ellocoloco]

Errr, no.

Maybe Hornby should give up on starter sets, a comprehensive range, track pieces, controllers, scenic accessories and innovations like the HM6000 and concentrate on obscure prototypes leaving Bachmann as the only supplier making a token effort to attract newcomers and returnees to the hobby.

[Fazy]

Lower overheads for a start, lower staff numbers, and lower new relishes, Hornby produces everything to build a full layout.

The new guys on the block don’t.

yes Track can be picked up from peco or a dcc controller from gauge master a coach from another producer. But peco track is dearer as is a gauge master controller etc etc. so you should look at the whole ant not cherry pick.

After all you could buy a APTE as a starter set and take it home. But what use is it with no track and power at the very least.

[ColinB]

Amazing response, I have always bought Peco track as it is better and last time I looked cheaper. As for the rest I will let the wider audience to judge.

[96RAF]

Eloco and fazy have a good point about introductions to the hobby.

A train set is the go-to method to get people started as it has ‘all the makings’ and not that many manufacturers in UK, or abroad turn them out.

[ColinB]

Sorry I don't think they have. Given Hornby's pricing even on the Percy replacement I suspect that market has virtually disappeared or moved to "Playtrains". I just look at the complexity of the model to work out what it should cost. Given the low number of employees now at Hornby I suspect that their team is not much bigger than the Rapido one. Also seeing how few models Rapido make, the price of their models should be significantly higher than Hornby's. Anyone with an once of production experience knows the more you make the cheaper it gets, go buy one switch from RS and then see the price for 100. The cost of my APT E from Rails is £407 including sound, so take £100 off of that for the sound option, that means the model is £307, compared with over £400 for the corresponding Hornby product. It is the attitude of those two individuals that gives Hornby the impression that the public will pay anything for their models, which generally is not the case.

[Will Hay]

It is the attitude of those two individuals that gives Hornby the impression that the public will pay anything for their models, which generally is not the case.

 

 

I like you Colin, you're not afraid to speak your mind and confront the old guard, but I think you're way off here.

I didn't read anything of the sort in the two replies, more so an acknowledgment that, over the years, Hornby have serviced the entire hobby, and maybe that doesn't always pay off.

Additionally, I didn't read any indication that the authors felt that Hornby are good value for money, either.

I mean, comparing the pack you bought with sound for 410GBP to a twin HST pack without sound for 360GBP speaks for itself.

I don't buy the suggestion that Hornby have similar staffing levels though, Hornby must be shipping thousands and thousands of units compared to the smaller boys, this takes massive resources.

I'm firmly in the camp that Hobby need to massively reduce their range and focus on much better quality but ultimately, people will vote with their wallets.

[ellocoloco]

Really @ColinB are you suggesting that my 'attitude' and that of @Fazy determine Hornby's pricing structure? If I had that level of influence OO would have been ditched years ago and we would have accurate British models in HO scale.

You have been on this forum for long enough to have seen numerous posts about costs and price comparisons and you should know to read and comprehend the responses before replying.

Prices are what they are. I don't like it either, but I can live with it.

[96RAF]

@elloco and willie

👍

[ColinB]

What I meant by the staffing levels is their core team seems very small if the Yesterday program is to be believed. One designer designs the product, so a small company would have the same, possibly Hornby may have behind the scenes people that arrange production, whereas in a small company the designer probably does that. It is not like the company where I worked where we had many designers building individual parts. So probably at the "coal face" they have the same level of support. Interestingly I received the loco today and considering it is a small company it comes with a wealth of data, a rather large user manual and exploded parts diagram. As to the products Hornby support very many of them are models that the core design was done years ago, that is reflected in the fact that a 1980s Britannia body fits the modern chassis, it is just that they have added a bit of detail. It is much easier to start with something than with nothing, so basically, no I don't accept your arguments.

I know Hornby prices are what they are, I can still complain and not buy them anymore. I was expecting an answer of the form that the Hornby model was tons better hence the justification for the price not that the price was subsidising all the other products Hornby makes. Incidentally my latest Bachmann class 90 with sound and motor driven pantograph was only marginally more expensive than the new price for a Hornby class 60 with no sound.