How Much!

[JJ73]

I quite like buying Train Sets as now I have got 18 of them (My Latest being The Tri-Ang Railways Remembered RS.48 - 'The Victorian' Train Set). I've got my eye on the R1283M BR 'The Royal Scot' Train Set Era 4 - but at being £429.99 - I think that is way too much & given me 2nd thoughts about it, when the other sets are between £59.99 (on offer usually £94.99) & £249.99 - & when the RS.48 is only £154.99 - so I'm not sure how Hornby can justify the R1283m being £429.99.

When the Loco is about £145.99 - & the Carriages don't seem to be that expensive either - so I'm not sure how Hornby managed to get to that price of £429.99! 🤔🚂

[M. Matthews]

Whilst I’m not denying that’s expensive, I think you may be looking at the wrong locomotive. The Dublo ones are over £300.

[JJ73]

Oh ok - but still - Expensive thou!!! 🚂

[ModelerXYZ]

Its fortunate that I have all the locos and rolling stock i think I need because I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a lot of new stuff at todays prices.

XYZ

[Twintop]

I have also decided that I have all the locos and stock I need, so won't be buying anything else at these very high prices. Pity, but at my age, I also won't get the use out of any new items!

I am concentrating on running, maintaining and repairing what I have.

I do keep looking at used examples, but even those prices are high especially when some are described as poor or non runners and they are asking £50-£60 for them, which is a gamble not knowing precisely what is wrong.

Never say never though I suppose.

[Yelrow]

I have bought a TT set. This is my first new purchase for 5 years. If TT had not come out, it would have stayed that way.

[VESPA]

There is no way I am paying these ridiculous prices being asked at present for new stock. Even 2nd had stock at certain retailers is becoming a joke pricewise. Some descriptions at one retailer bear no resemblance to the product or condition. It is the end of railway modelling for the masses. What annoys me is the sale of items previously say £189 reduced to a BARGAIN £85. What went on there with that. Losses because of the wrong model being considered. No need to worry, the mugs will pay the next price increases. New model arrives or new number and name and woooooooof on goes another £50. 12 months later it packs up. No spares available anywhere so now we own a plastic static model. Price increases on this scale will kill Hornby and Bachmann and quite a few newer entries to the land of the money tree.

[atom3624]

It's annoying enough having an already costed, new tooling item, delayed through no fault of the expectant modeller increase 2 or 3 times during these delays.

What gets the 'goat' of many is the substantial increases to super old tooling items, still considered as production ones, presumably their preparation and dies already depreciated and paid for.

Al.

[ColinB]

It is interesting about the views on this site when I was complaining about the price of locos there were several on this site that implied that they were good value for money even trying to justify the price of a loco now against one in the 60s using the average wage (really dumb comparison). Funny thing is, the set JJ was complaining about is actually good value for money at today's prices if you can afford it (loco £320+, + 2 coaches at £50 + track), although I am not buying one. I did buy the Elizabeth II loco eventually even though for months I moaned about the price. Hornby were still doing then for their original price while on EBay they were £400 plus, so it sort of prompted me into buying it. Surprisingly other than the purple colour and the 21 pin DCC socket, it is no different to the original model but as she died, I suppose that is why it is worth so much and why I bought it.

The interesting thing is the supposed prices for TT locos, now most of the cost of a loco seems to be labour, motors and moulding costs should be roughly the same, difference in amount of plastic not that significant. So how come that they are substantially cheaper than an OO gauge model?

[Fazy]

I would hazard a guess the design as been done in such a way as to minimise the labour, of the model.

I love the the re-built Scot’s and pats. Well I was building the British Legion. I decided to strip one of the bodies down to see just how many parts there was. The body itself has close to 100 parts! Some one as to put those things on. Not mention each thing had to be designed and tested . So if that number can be cut down to half if not less without lowering the detail to much the savings soon start to add up.

[Yelrow]

I am afraid I see No justification for these ridiculous prices. Model trains were something you played with your children.

[ColinB]

I am with you Yelrow on this one, Sam of Sam's Trains sums it up quite well. On some you can possibly justify it like the new Hornby Evening Star, because of the new tooling but then there are other models in Hornby's range that are over 10 years old. So those models definitely don't justify the high prices.

[81F]

I think model railway prices have been hit by a double whammy like a lot of things. Firstly, a general price increases all round and that we do not make them in Britain.

A few days ago, I noticed that £1 was trading with the $1.13, almost parity, whereas it seems like only a few years ago £1 could buy you around £1.64. This means that even if the price of labour, materials, fuel and Transport etc. remained the same, there would have been around a 45% price increase just because of the exchange rate!

[Bulleidboy]

I would have thought that a ten year old design (loco?) produced today, would cost a lot more than it did ten years ago. Everything is going up at alarming rate - I am afraid it is something we are all going to have to live with.

[ColinB]

Actually guys where have you been, the pound hasn't been £1.64 for a very long time last time I went to Florida 3 years ago it was £1.25 and I am pretty sure it was worth even less than that 2 years previous to that. When you design something generally all the design costs are recouped in the first two years, so on a 10 year old design you are just paying for production costs and materials. Of course a 10 year designed loco will be more expensive now than it was when it first got designed, but it shouldn't be the same same price and a newly tooled one. Generally with most things if you buy the old model it is cheaper that the new one. Either way it is not going to change.

[Fazy]

In 2004 it was 2$ to a £1

in 2014 it’s was $1.64 to a £1

at the moment it’s $1.13 to a £1

This makes a large difference to a models price. Roughly 30% of the price increases is down to exchange. From 2014 till today. Obviously other price rises need to be taken into account but Peco has given a idea on these in their statement they released yesterday I believe (well I read it yesterday)

[AndyMac1707817969]

As usual people want the items to be the same price as they were years ago but ironically don't want their wage packet to be the same. When I was a child I think a loco cost my mother over a week’s wages.

 

Hornby don't have to justify anything to anyone, they are a business not some charitable institution. Let’s face facts the average person in the street has no idea how much it costs to make anything. They just dream something up in their head or pluck a price out of thin air as how much they would like to pay but of course have no qualms about paying less if they can get away with it. It is not as if other manufactures are much different in price unless you have some conspiracy theory about them all running some price cartel. Companies have bills to meet, staff wages pay and debt to pay off. You do not price items on some individual basis, some have to be sold on a lower margin if there is more competition so others have to make up the shortfall. Hornby just don’t have to compete with the other traditional model makers they have compete with retailers like Hattons selling directly to the public. Hattons have a cost of manufacture and a sale price there is no middle model shop also needing to make a living.

Companies have to make profits or else very soon they won’t be making anything. They often have to make it where they can. Rather typical of the hypocritical public who sell their house for a much as they can get for it don’t think that should apply when they are the purchaser of something.

[81F]

I think with covid I have "lost" track of time so 2014-18 would be about right when I was doing using Dollars regularly for a variety of reasons.

Also some of Hornby's older models show signs of re-tooling. The MK1 bogies (pre the current range) lost their central boss. Railroad Pullman bogies have molded on couplings rather than the riveted type.

Although the top link and earliuer Harry potter Mk1s go together like the old long Triang ones, nearly wvery component seems re-tooled, especially the rooves and sides - A bit like Triggers broom on only fools and Horses.

[ColinB]

Actually AndyMac I do know how much it costs to manufacture something admittedly it is in automotive but I have to admit I was surprised when I was in meetings costing up parts actually how much things cost. They were a lot less than what I expected. Generally in development we would pay a fortune for parts. Costs come down with volume which is where Hornby lose as the tooling is split between less units. Also your admin feeds off how much product you shift, so again if you don't make many then costs rise.

Either way there is nothing I can do about it, but the thing that is interesting even Hornby are doing bargain basement on some of their models. I noticed yesterday when I was looking that a Princess Elizabeth was about 40% off on their site and that is a really decent model. An easy way to look at costs is to look at a similar product and see what they charge.

As I said there is nothing I can do about it but the worrying point is that Hornby are selling to a diminishing market so when they bring out a new model like Evening Star most of their small customer base probably already has one, so the market is smaller. Without new customers you get into a spiral of increased prices with less and less volume. That is probably the reason that they are going into TT full blast. It will be very interesting to see how many Hornby Dublo Flying Scotsman they sell.

[threelink]

Let's face it: railway modeling has always been an expensive hobby if everything is bought new. That applies particularly to the current crop of fabulous near museum quality models, but you get what you pay for. None of us can know for certain what are the manufacturing costs and profit levels for the manufacturers. For those who, like me, neither want nor can afford fragile all-singing all-dancing locos with sound, steam dcc and all the rest of it, any discussion of pricing is irrelevant. I am happy just to buy second hand junk and fettle it into useable analogue models, but I respect those who want more. Each to his own, and more power to the elbows of those who can afford the prices now charged - long may you enjoy your purchases and keep the manufacturers in business. It's just a shame that simpler, cheaper models are no longer available for people like me to detail and upgrade

[ModelerXYZ]

I can't see the detail when its running around my layout, and the trains are only a feature when they move. I never stare at a static loco unless it is supposed to be moving and isn't. I just want trains I can play with that look like trains-super detailing isn't for me and nor is DCC. I prefer anolouge anyway. I just wish there were more basic locos availible for a reasonable price.

XYZ

[threelink]

@MO

Well spoke. A man after my own heart.