Front Bogies on A4 William Whitelaw

[Ron-353921]

The front bogie wheels keep coming off the track. I done everything I can think replaced track pieces fixed it down.It seems the main problem is when it comes off the curves to the straight track. I'm using 3rd & 2nd radius curves.I am beginning to regret changing to TT from N.

Any suggestions would be appreciated to help slove the problem.

Ron P

[taunmarc88]

I have been experiencing similar issues, most of the time the wheels on my A1 lift and don’t rotate on the curves at all.

[ntpntpntp]

There has been suspicion that the small piece of black tape fixed to the underside of the chassis above the front bogie may interfere in some circumstances, and it has been suggested to remove that tape. However I've not noticed any bogie problems with my A4 so far, and the tape is still in place on mine.

[Rallymatt]

I would remove the front truck, ensure the sprung loaded mounting is working okay (check the small plastic washer isn’t jammed in the lateral slot on the bracket) and then check the angle that the mounting bracket is at, it may need a tweak to ensure the front truck sits correctly with all 4 wheels on the rails.

PS, the small square of insulation tape is also in place on my A4 and is not causing derailments

[TTiimm]

My Nighthawk was delivered last week and was having exactly the same problem. I swapped the bogies from my William Whitelaw on to the Nighthawk and the Nighthawk worked perfectly. So it was obviously the bogies were the problem. I had a closer look and discovered the front bogie wheel flange was catching on a small metal tab on the front of the truck. It was stopping the bogies moving fully from left to right on the curves. I tried easing the metal tab out to get it to clear the wheel flange and it snapped off. Put it back on the track and it worked fine. I turned the loco around and it started lifting again. So I took the bogies off again and snipped the small metal tab on the other side off with a xuron snippers. It worked. It goes both directions fine now. It looks like a casting error in some of the bogies trucks. I will see if I can get a photo of it and will post it later.

[TTiimm]

Here is a photo with me pointing at the area where the little metal tabs were. There is a tiny white spot where I snapped the one on this side off. Diagnosis is simple enough, push the front bogie from side to side and see if the flanges are catching on little metal tabs that are just behind the front of the the bogies truck.

[Fishmanoz]

Well spotted TTiim!

[Ron-353921]

How easy is it to remove the front bogies I am not the greatest at fixing things on locos.

[TTiimm]

Just one screw to remove. Below is fig 6 on the maintenance instructions. I have circled it in red. You should be able to see the tabs and if they are catching on the front bogie without having to remove it.

[Clement Matchett]

I too have wondered about those..some sort of guard for the bogie wheels in the prototype? My William Whitelaw also derails sometimes on 3rd radius and is unusable on radius 2, though my Falcon and Silver King are fine.

I will get my Xurons out….

Thanks TTilmm!

[Clement Matchett]

Actually, I think they are the supports for the outboard ends of the cylinder drain cocks.

My engine has had ‘the snip’ and hasn’t derailed again so far!

[Ron-353921]

Thank you TTiimm for the advice removed the metal lugs and been running for 45 mins no problem the metal was just stopping the bogies turning that little bit as they came off the curve.

[Ashley-37604]

I too had this problem. It looks like the front axle lifts off the track, even on a straight section. Reading all the solutions here would mean cutting away at the model and this could invalidate any warranty.

On closer inspection I removed the little pieces on the front of the bogie, there is a tiny screw and the guards fall off, putting the bogie back on there were no more derailments.

It looks like this part jams up against the body and lifts the wheels up.

A design problem or an assembly problem, I don't know one for Mr Hornby to fix.

As an aside the Easterner cost a bit over a months rent here in Aus, for the average person buying this, derailments will result in it going back to the shop and that will be the end of TT for that person.

[Peachy]

As an aside the Easterner cost a bit over a months rent here in Aus, for the average person buying this, derailments will result in it going back to the shop and that will be the end of TT for that person.

 

 

Blimey! Over here in the UK, the Eastener is about a weeks rent!😂

And in London? Well maybe 2 days? 🤣🤣🤣

[Rallymatt]

Please forgive Peachy, he is very loose with his money…🤣 Yorkshire is well known for its generosity and care free attitude to such trivial things as money….

[Ashley-37604]

Rallymat and Peachy flippancy is ok, you guys back in blighty don't know how good you have it. Down here in the antipodies both supply and service are limited and as for price 😵. Fortunately I have a good shop to go to.

Average Rental in Melbourne is $515 a week.

Average weekly earnings is $1832

and a BigMac is $7.55

Easterner hm7000 set cost $735

Night Hawk hm7000 $340

Coach $62.95

Many advertised specials are not available outside UK.

And Peachy, I also watch your youtube channel.

[Hobby11]

Just for information, £1 = Australian$1.86.

UK Easterner DCC set on Hornby's website: £250 (A$465), and A$532 on Metro Hobbies (Australian shop) website. https://www.metrohobbies.com.au/products/hornby-tt1002m-tt-the-easterner-digital-model-train-set

As usual, best to shop around.

[Fishmanoz]

Metro Hobbies is one of the more expensive tied to wholesaler SMS, Hobbyco one of the better. Frontline in between plus there are 5 or 6 more.

But as has been stated many times before, set prices are horrendous via SMS and all their retailers, much worse than individual items. Why anyone would be through them is beyond me. Either you need a Uk delivery address if buying via Hornby else go via UK retailers.

PS. Re derailing issues, all of them covered fully in the sticky right at the top of the forum. That sticky didn’t exist when this thread was first raised but sure does now.

[Rallymatt]

I’d certainly recommend reviewing the problems/fixes sticky at the top of the page, a few of us have worked through issues to provide a way for fellow modellers to have their locos running sweetly and Chris (Peachy) has additionally taken the effort to collate them in one place 👍

There has always been an element of ‘fettling’ in Railway Modelling but the fixes should be within the scope of most people. Not a lot of tools required, some small ‘jewellers’ screwdrivers, cranked tweezers, some foam to hold loco and a good light. Always lots of patience though. Long term some basic skills can end up saving you a fortune and a lot of frustration. There are lots of resources here and online to help 😁

[Ashley-37604]

I think given the problems identified with the front bogies, Mr Hornby should do a redesign.

As for the pricing, the Metro Hobbies was not for the TT1002TXSM but just the M.

My point is regardless of all the fettling etc experienced modellers will do, if juniors train keeps falling off the track mum and dad will return it, not fix it and TT120 will end up with a bad reputation and I for one want TT120 to be a success and am looking forward to some freight steam and maybe a Jinty.

This has to be the ideal scale.

[BritInVanCA]

I’ve come to the conclusion TT120 is not a beginner scale. When I started nearly 50 years ago you began on the carpet and perhaps graduated to a baseboard after a few years when you got serious. Maintenance consisted of cleaning track and perhaps wheels. Lubrication was very infrequent and you never took anything apart.

Hopefully OO Railroad is still like this but TT certainly isn’t.

BTW according to statistics I live in the 3rd least affordable city in the world Vancouver Canada! Sidney and London are more affordable

[Generic Hornby Username]

The primary reason for difficulties with the front bogie seem to be manufacturing rather than design. Getting the manufacturing processes right is absolutely essential. Missing components, incorrectly-applied detailing, and faulty mechanisms need to be addressed.

My perception of the factory producing Hornby's TT products is generally positive when it comes to paint and printing. I've rarely (if ever) seen any complaints about the finish of the models. On the other hand, there have been a number of persistent issues with the assembly of the components.

In the long run I'm firmly convinced that the group of people with the highest motivation to correct these issues are Hornby themselves. Repairing faulty or incorrectly assembled locomotives is expensive. Getting it right from the factory is the ultimate win for both Hornby and their customers.

The combination of TT120 being both a new scale and the fact that Hornby established a relationship with a new factory means that turbulence was inevitable. I'm hoping we see consistent improvements in the quality of the products produced into the future. Perfection isn't possible, but it's well worth striving for.

Give it time!

[Hobby11]

I’ve come to the conclusion TT120 is not a beginner scale. When I started nearly 50 years ago you began on the carpet and perhaps graduated to a baseboard after a few years when you got serious. Maintenance consisted of cleaning track and perhaps wheels. Lubrication was very infrequent and you never took anything apart.

Hopefully OO Railroad is still like this but TT certainly isn’t.

 

 

I think that's an unfair comparison. I, too, came from that era and know the sorts of stuff that was around then, with a screwdriver you could pull apart and put together a loco of that era, the X04 ruled!

But demand has changed, detail is far, far better, even at "railroad" standard, people don't want the old standard for their layouts. The sets that meet your criteria, in 00 anyhow, are ones like that Christmas set with the generic 0-4-0T, maybe they'll do one in TT in due course but I'd suggest that they're making enough money on the existing stuff not to want to spend money on the off chance there's enough demand for a TT version which would then take sales from their 00 version!

The way I look at TT120 is that they are marketing the product to new/returning "mature" modellers and existing modellers, not to the kids toy market (which is what Triang was doing back in the 50s and 60s).

 

 

Ashley, that link I posted WAS for the DCC set and when I posted it they were in stock, though I note they aren't now. It was just done to show that discounted prices weren't that much different to Hornby's.

[BritInVanCA]

@hobby

i think we agree much more than you think. My statements were primarily to illustrate that TT120 is not a beginners scale. Even if OO railroad isn’t as robust as the old 1960/70s stuff I hope it is tough enough for the young newcomer because without that influx the hobby will die which none of us want.

BTW Early marketing for TT120 did mention the beginner child whose parents determined they currently have no space in the house. Perhaps that would work for the teen beginner. From my experience that age group are quite skillful