Decoder reset?

[ColinB]

The Manufacturers Id s are as follows:-

Hornby    48
Zimo    145
LokSound    151
LaisDCC    134
Gaugemaster    65
Appel    174
Dapol    154
DCC Concepts    36

There are more but these are the only ones I use.

So for a Hornby decoder the request should come back with 48 or 30 in hexadecimal. The Elite it appears displays as normal values so my Thomas the Tank fitted loco it comes back with 145, which is a Zimo decoder. For a Hornby it should read 48. Now if you get XXX or FF or 255  (can't remember whether if it fails it defaults to hexadecimal) then it has not read properly.
 

[Ian-1301567]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

No, it won't, you need to enable the sound by pressing function F1 on your controller.

Have you had any dealings with the new Steam Generator from Hornby has I'm wondering whether you have to press something extra on the DCC Controller like F1 like you do with the Sound Decoder. Cause again I assumed as soon as the Generator had warmed up starting around the track that this operation would occur naturally but beginning to wonder as to whether again this is a function key that needs to be pressed on the Controller?.

[ColinB]

9 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

Have you had any dealings with the new Steam Generator from Hornby has I'm wondering whether you have to press something extra on the DCC Controller like F1 like you do with the Sound Decoder. Cause again I assumed as soon as the Generator had warmed up starting around the track that this operation would occur naturally but beginning to wonder as to whether again this is a function key that needs to be pressed on the Controller?.

Yes, I do have a Flying Scotsman and yes you fill it with water and press F1 and it should start steaming, even while standing still. Now according to posts on this website and others sometimes you have to fill it with a little more water to get it to work initially but in my case it worked straight away. This is a thread on this forum about it.

[Brew Man]

duplicated post.

Edited July 16 by Brew Man

[Brew Man]

35 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

In layman's terms how do you interpret the Manufacturers ID cause on the Hornby table for a 6 pin for example it states PIN 1 - Default No.3 are these numbers that are entered into the DCC Controller to test if they are working?.

Which table are you referring to?

[ColinB]

2 minutes ago, Brew Man said:

Which table are you referring to?

The Manufacturers Ids from DCC website. That is my table that I extracted and put into an Excel spreadsheet to work out what is fitted into any locos I buy. The one on the DCC website is much larger but as I said they are the only ones I use.

Edited July 16 by ColinB

[Brew Man]

@ColinB Sorry, I was referring to an earlier post by Ian on page one.

[ColinB]

2 minutes ago, Brew Man said:

Which table are you referring to?

Oh I think I know what the issue is, the six pin connector is inserted upside down, the table they are referring to is the connections table. I am always doing it get the connector round the wrong way and wonder why nothing works. Of course the track input is the centre two pins so the decoder gets powered not matter which way round it is connected.

[ntpntpntp]

42 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

In layman's terms how do you interpret the Manufacturers ID cause on the Hornby table for a 6 pin for example it states PIN 1 - Default No.3

Confusing question!  Do you mean CV  (control Variable) rather than "PIN"?   CV 1 is the DCC short address which defaults to 3 for a brand new decoder.

Manufacturer ID is CV 8.  If your DCC system can read CVs then you can look up the value against the NMRA list find who makes the decoder.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205327935-Complete-list-of-Manufacturer-Ids-per-the-NMRA-Value-in-CV8   

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[Brew Man]

32 minutes ago, ColinB said:

The Manufacturers Id s are as follows:-

Hornby    48
Zimo    145
LokSound    151
LaisDCC    134
Gaugemaster    65
Appel    174
Dapol    154
DCC Concepts    36

There are more but these are the only ones I use.

So for a Hornby decoder the request should come back with 48 or 30 in hexadecimal. The Elite it appears displays as normal values so my Thomas the Tank fitted loco it comes back with 145, which is a Zimo decoder. For a Hornby it should read 48. Now if you get XXX or FF or 255  (can't remember whether if it fails it defaults to hexadecimal) then it has not read properly.
 

Some older decoders don't even facilitate the reading of CVs

[Ian-1301567]

4 minutes ago, Brew Man said:

Which table are you referring to?

The Table is in the Hornby Decoder instructions but states certain Defaults but I was looking for something easier to follow when testing the decoders and DCC Controller as to what I should be seeing when on say the LiasDCC unit when testing say 6 or 8 pin decoders.

[ntpntpntp]

3 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

what I should be seeing when on say the LiasDCC unit when testing say 6 or 8 pin decoders

Assuming the decoder address is set correctly and you call up the matching address on your DCC system, you can test the motor works and test the lighting function(s) work.   On a 6 pin or 8 pin decoder only the head/tail lights are wired through the socket  (usually function key F0). Any other lights have to be hard-wired to other pads on the decoder (if the decoder itself supports more functions).

 

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[Ian-1301567]

6 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Confusing question!  Do you mean CV  (control Variable) rather than "PIN"?   CV 1 is the DCC short address which defaults to 3 for a brand new decoder.

Manufacturer ID is CV 8.  If your DCC system can read CVs then you can look up the value against the NMRA list find who makes the decoder.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205327935-Complete-list-of-Manufacturer-Ids-per-the-NMRA-Value-in-CV8   

That's a good table to have to check on.

[Ian-1301567]

2 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Assuming the decoder address is set correctly and you call up the matching address on your DCC system, you can test the motor works and test the lighting function(s) work.   On a 6 pin or 8 pin decoder only the head/tail lights are wired through the socket  (usually function key F0). Any other lights have to be hard-wired to other pads on the decoder (if the decoder itself supports more functions).

 

It's coming clearer now that was the bit I didn't know that you have type in the Manufacturers ID Number to test your decoder.

[ntpntpntp]

1 minute ago, Ian-1301567 said:

didn't know that you have type in the Manufacturers ID Number to test your decoder

Er...  NO YOU DON'T!!         You have to select the decoder address!!!!    

[Brew Man]

You don't type in the Mfr's ID, it is read only.

[ntpntpntp]

3 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

[Manufacturer ID] is a good table to have to check on

Well usually you know what brand of decoder you've bought and are fitting!    It is useful if you've acquired an unknown decoder and want to identify it.     

Software decoder programmers read CV8 and (others) to recognise the make and model of a decoder.  Once that is known the programming options can be customised to the decoder's features.   I use free software "DecoderPro" by JMRI  (Java Model Railroad Interface) and a little SPROG hardware box connected to my pc.  It's a much more user-friendly way of programming decoders. 

[Ian-1301567]

4 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

Er...  NO YOU DON'T!!         You have to select the decoder address!!!!    

Oh right so in laymans terms do I goto CV Read and rotate the controller dial to say 48 for Hornby.

[ntpntpntp]

4 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

Oh right so in laymans terms do I goto CV Read and rotate the controller dial to say 48 for Hornby

No.  What exactly are you trying to do?
If you read CV 8 and it's a Hornby decoder it should return a value of 48.   You cannot write to and actually change the value of CV8, it is fixed.     ** but note that some decoders perform a reset if you do take the option to write a value to CV 8.  Often (but not always) you try and write a value 8 to CV 8 to force a reset.     Is that what you're still trying to do - given the thread title? 

Edited July 16 by ntpntpntp

[Brew Man]

@Ian-1301567 The Mfr's ID thing is a red herring. All Colin was was saying is that if you can read CV 8, (Mfr's ID) then it is is likely that the decoder is working.

I'm throwing in the towel at this point.

Edited July 16 by Brew Man

[Ian-1301567]

2 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

No.  What exactly are you trying to do?
If you read CV 8 and it's a Hornby decoder it should return a value of 48.   You cannot write to and actually change the value of CV8, it is fixed.     ** but note that some decoders perform a reset if you do take the option to write a value to CV 8.  Is that what you're still trying to do - given the thread title? 

In a sort of manner I'm trying to get my head around the basics of testing decoders types 6 o 8 pins on a LiasDCC Tester and I assume that when this is connected in conjunction with the Elite DCC Controller are their certain things I need to goto on the Controller and to know what to look out for on the LiasDCC Tester if that makes sense.

[ColinB]

3 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

No.  What exactly are you trying to do?
If you read CV 8 and it's a Hornby decoder it should return a value of 48.   You cannot write to and actually change the value of CV8, it is fixed.     ** but note that some decoders perform a reset if you do take the option to write a value to CV 8.  Often (but not always) you try and write a value 8 to CV 8 to force a reset.     Is that what you're still trying to do - given the thread title? 

For LaisDCC here is a mail I got from CM models

Colin can you try writing 4 to cv8 and cv30 on a test track. This should do a factory reset on the chip and set the loco number back to 3

It did work, occasionally LaisDCC decoders get lost, I have no idea why.

[ntpntpntp]

1 minute ago, Ian-1301567 said:

In a sort of manner I'm trying to get my head around the basics of testing decoders types 6 o 8 pins on a LiasDCC Tester and I assume that when this is connected in conjunction with the Elite DCC Controller are their certain things I need to goto on the Controller and to know what to look out for on the LiasDCC Tester if that makes sense.

Right.... back to basics.       

1) you have a Hornby Elie DCC system, correct?
2) You have a Hornby decoder, correct?
3) you have a LiasDCC decoder tester board, correct?
4) you know the DCC address of the decoder?

So...

1) connect decoder to the LaisDCC  decoder tester board.
2) connect Elite's track output to the LaisDCC decoder tester board.
3) call up the loco DCC address on the Elite just as you do to run a loco on the track.
4) turn the control knob to increase speed, the motor on the LiasDCC board should run.  Change direction and make sure the motor runs to opposite way.  This will prove that the decoder is alive, the address is what you think it is, and the decoder's output driver electronic are not blown up.
5) try the headlight function button on the Elite, the LED for F0 on the LaisDCC board should turn off and on in response to the button.

That's it really.  If the decoder's socket had more functions for other lights or for sound you could test those, but sounds like the decoder you have is a basic one just connected through an 8 pin socket?

 

[Ian-1301567]

This is how I have interpreted the DCC Controller vs LiasDCC is that you need to read the CV (Manufacturers ID) into the Controller and then certain lights/motor will operate for that particuliar Decoder when under test on the LiasDCC is this correct?.

[ColinB]

3 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said:

In a sort of manner I'm trying to get my head around the basics of testing decoders types 6 o 8 pins on a LiasDCC Tester and I assume that when this is connected in conjunction with the Elite DCC Controller are their certain things I need to goto on the Controller and to know what to look out for on the LiasDCC Tester if that makes sense.

The tester just takes the place of the loco and it is a known entity. The loco may have wiring faults, a faulty motor, so all the tester does is allow you to test the decoder before you put into a loco. A common complaint from some Retailers is that it is the loco is at fault if the decoder doesn't work, been there with a certain sound retailer. Fortunately most are ok, but it gives you the knowledge that if it doesn't work on the tester then there is no way it will work on the loco. Also things like function outputs, if you wanted to test those on your loco you would have to wire up leds and series resistors in your loco to test they work. This is already done on the tester so you can check them out easily. The tester is not magically going to fix a decoder, it is only a means of making testing easier.