EBay Class 08 Not Working

[DJBDoug]

So I bought, and overspent, on the eBay BR class 08. I bought it because I have bought a couple of gbrf 08s cheap, second hand that work, so knew I could just swap bits out. 

Condition looked ok with a bent handrail. And bent pickups on the wheels. Took it apart and inspected it. It’s been apart as it has whitetac inside. 
 

When powering up it would over current on power supply. The resistance across the motor was 60 ohms ish and turned it and then 1.7 ohms ish so shorting inside. 

So I swapped spare motor assembly over. 
 

Then no short but open circuit. The small screw that holds the spring pin board in is too long so doesn’t always sit all the way down or flat. Shortened the bolt and it sits true. Both 08s have too long a screw. 
 

Now a working BR 08. 
 

Took the motor apart and one of the brushes has worn and missing/worn away the bushes arm. Blew the bits out of the motor and straightened the remaining part of the bush arm and then the motor ran ok. But will still need a new motor and probably pickups.

 

 

 

I hope this is useful to others. I hope the previous owner has enjoyed this 08 and hopefully it’s done a lot of shunting in its past life! 

[GMD]

Excellent diagnostics and photo/video evidence for us to follow. Thanks. Will def keep a watch out for the overly long screw. That's a great catch. 

[Fishmanoz]

What/where is the “spring pin board” with the too long screw?

Someone has sure been overly enthusiastic with the pickups given their state.

Also, I expect this loco is still under warranty?

[DJBDoug]

 

this little board. You can push it down with screw fully tight. If you remove and refit with the long screw if it’s at a slight angle the sprung pins can be at a slight angle and not touch contacts underneath. 
 

The seller sold as out of warranty. 
 

The motor had not been apart. I think it’s been ran at full power a lot, and worn one of brushes because of heat. 

[moawkwrd]

Good work on this - however the poor thing must have been abused to have ended up in that state already? Motors should gives years/decades of service if treated correctly, no?

Edited June 29 by moawkwrd

[Silver Fox 17]

2 minutes ago, moawkwrd said:

Motors should gives years/decades of service if treated correctly, no?

You would like to think so.

[ntpntpntp]

I've seen exactly the same motor failures with N gauge can motors of the same design with "precious metal" finger brushes instead of proper carbon brushes. I've also got one working again in the same way you have but I wouldn't trust it now.   This use of "throw-away" motors nowadays does disappoint me when you can keep ancient X.04s and old N gauge motors going for decades.  

PS I've also got exactly the same bench power supply, I used it a lot when servicing my G scale locos 🙂 For general use with smaller scales it's been supplanted by a more compact one with a digital display.  

[Silver Fox 17]

11 minutes ago, ntpntpntp said:

This use of "throw-away" motors nowadays does disappoint me when you can keep ancient X.04s and old N gauge motors going for decades.  

It does me too, especially as there are no specified replacements anywhere. I am talking of a direct fit as per Hornby not the ones advertised for gluing in.

Hornby don't list it with a spare part number, nothing is these days anyway.

You can buy some items from Peters spares which have a number on the packet but Hornby don't list anything.

Edited June 29 by Silver Fox 17

[DJBDoug]

I’ve emailed Hornby asking to buy a motor so will see what they say 

[Rallymatt]

Excellent work and interesting to see the can motor opened up. 
These motors will be an issue going forwards as they will fail. The design is a service replacement item, ie it’s a disposable motor. I am sure this is why Hornby announced they would be introducing a 3pole motor with traditional brushes (on J50?) It would be great if an upgraded direct replacement item is made available. 
On the PCB screw, I have had my 08 apart, just fitted sound so did a full strip and checked that very board, the screw is visibly shorter than one you discovered in place. Now considering my initial 08 was DOA, that could be the cause. 👍

[Too Tall]

I have some I "think" might be a direct replacement for the regular TT ones, that I got from ebay: Mini N20 DC 6V-12V High Speed Micro 10mm*12mm Motor Dual 1mm Shaft DIY Slot Car | eBay

I say "I think" as I haven't actually tried one yet !

[Rallymatt]

Would be interesting to see how you get on with one @Too Tall. Obviously there is a bit of shaft trimming needed at one end, heating the worm gear on a dead motor and for installation on new motor should help make that easy too. 👍

[Fishmanoz]

Given its state, I can see why it was sold as out of warranty.  However, these locos were first released less than 12 months ago, so are only out of warranty if they have been modified/worked on such that Hornby say the warranty has been voided.

I would suggest it’s worth a try to reassemble and see what they say.

[Going Spare]

@Silver Fox 17 Some TT spares appear on Lendons and Peters Spares websites, both of which now have a specific section for them.  There is, as yet, however, nothing listed for the 08 although some HST components are now showing. 

[Silver Fox 17]

8 minutes ago, Going Spare said:

@Silver Fox 17 Some TT spares appear on Lendons and Peters Spares websites, both of which now have a specific section for them.  There is, as yet, however, nothing listed for the 08 although some HST components are now showing. 

I have bought wheels for the A1 from the middle of last year and recently got some HST spares but stopped buying A1 wheels when they went from £13 to £37 overnight.

[Rallymatt]

The presence of white tac inside suggests someone was having a fiddle about and probably got out of their depth. On the warranty issue, Hornby have always been extremely accommodating even with ‘user inflicted damage’ There is the possibility someone was trying to instal various electrical devices and shorted out the motor and that’s what resulted in the burnt out contact/brush arm. A call might be worth making. They could only say no or give a price for a replacement motor at worst. 

Edited June 29 by Rallymatt

[Too Tall]

16 hours ago, Rallymatt said:

Would be interesting to see how you get on with one @Too Tall. Obviously there is a bit of shaft trimming needed at one end, heating the worm gear on a dead motor and for installation on new motor should help make that easy too. 👍

TBH I got them for  kit bashing, which I have shelved for now. Hopefully none of my Locos will require replacements yet, but I have some if needs be 😏

 

[david_watts1]

You could try making a class 13, they seem to be popular in OO recently with both Jenny and Craig making one.

[DJBDoug]

The dimensions look exactly the same as “N20” motors on eBay or AliExpress. I’ve ordered some from a couple of different suppliers so will take one of each apart and compare with Hornbys OE motor. 

[Rallymatt]

I have bought some of the N20 that are available on eBay. Might pop one open and take a look, the terminals are on opposite end to the oe ones, suggests it different inside. 

[ntpntpntp]

N20 motors are available for different voltages, speeds, single or double-ended, and levels of quality.  Make sure it's a 12V rated motor.

I've used decent quality double-ended N20s to replace the smaller of the old Fleischmann N gauge motors and they've been pretty much a drop-in fit, just needing a brass tube shaft adapter.


Examples of different N20s I have in my spares stash

[Rallymatt]

Top Tips Nick, one of the difficulties I noticed is how to even begin to decide the quality. Every seller says ‘best quality’ but so did the chap in the Bazaar in Marrakesh selling rugs! The eBay ones are £1.67 or so, but I must admit I’m not expecting the world at that price. I would source better if I knew there were better ones about 

[ntpntpntp]

The ones I bought from N-Drive Productions' ebay store do seem to be better quality than some of the others, but I haven't had a failure of any of them so far.   I'm not sure if N-Drive are still active though.

[DJBDoug]

Got a reply from Hornby.
 

They asked to send it in. I asked just for spare parts to purchase but they don’t have the parts. (Pickups and motor)
 

I expect they would send out a replacement 08. Like a recent YouTuber had recently. 

[Les-345151]

I used a pair of N20 motors in my diecast GG1 conversion and tested a dozen or so to get a decent speed match- so performance is quite variable, particularly at low voltages.