ColinB Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, Deem said: I also have received the X7585 princess complete tender. Tomorrow will attempt to install and check the wiring because if I recall I have to swap the wires in tender to change the polarity? Colour change is due to reflection from laptop lcd. You only have to change the wiring if you want it to be the same as all the non Duchess/Princess locos. If not just wire the loco to match. I do it to make all my locos the same but any Duchess/Princess purchased new, will probably have it wired wrong compared to other Hornby locos. Why oh why did they solder the socket wrong on only this model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, ColinB said: You only have to change the wiring if you want it to be the same as all the non Duchess/Princess locos. If not just wire the loco to match. I do it to make all my locos the same but any Duchess/Princess purchased new, will probably have it wired wrong compared to other Hornby locos. Why oh why did they solder the socket wrong on only this model? I was thinking that as well, that I just soldered the wiring in loco to match the tender so tender have original soldering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 (edited) Just watched jenny kirk video about Hornby R3711 and noticed that this particular loco have sprung front Bogie, part number X7520, my question is, can I install this to all my older Princess Class Loco and to Merchant Navy UN-rebuild or rebuild model? Edited July 14 by RDS Part Number in text changed as requested by Deem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 (edited) On 12/07/2024 at 22:24, Deem said: Just watched jenny kirk video about Hornby R3711 and noticed that this particular loco have sprung front Bogie, part number X7520, my question is, can I install this to all my older Princess Class Loco and to Merchant Navy UN-rebuild or rebuild model? Edited July 14 by RDS Part Number in original text changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 12/07/2024 at 22:25, Deem said: Yes you can definitely fit it to a Princess, I did that with mine. I have never tried it with the Merchant Navy but I have fitted them to my Duchess class locos. For the Duchess yet again Hornby don't list the proper sprung one for a Duchess as a spare part (it has a part number but is not listed as a spare), so you have to straighten the bogie mounting bracket. Funny thing is on some locos the new bogie arrangement works, on others the old setup seems to work better. On the Duchess you also have to create a new mounting hole forward of the original one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 12 minutes ago, ColinB said: Yes you can definitely fit it to a Princess, I did that with mine. I have never tried it with the Merchant Navy but I have fitted them to my Duchess class locos. For the Duchess yet again Hornby don't list the proper sprung one for a Duchess as a spare part (it has a part number but is not listed as a spare), so you have to straighten the bogie mounting bracket. Funny thing is on some locos the new bogie arrangement works, on others the old setup seems to work better. On the Duchess you also have to create a new mounting hole forward of the original one. Thanks @ColinB will order now and I will update once I received them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Well, I have now fitted a Hornby West Country Class 21 pin DCC PCB to the 8 pin mounts in a the Princess tender (no work required other than wiring) and made a little adaptor so a Roads and Rails 20X20X7mm "megabase mini speaker" can fit in neatly. The speaker sits flush with the top of the weight and allows plenty of room underneath for the stock tender wiring. I am hoping it will work on a good few other 28mm Hornby speaker mounts in tenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 Hello I am working on Hornby R2171 Merchant Navy Canadian Pacific. As the pictures shows that Loco doesn't have much room to install the decoder. So alternative is to find suitable chassis with magnet which allow me to install Decoder and speaker in the Tender, any advise on this finding the correct tender chassis. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Have a look at tender chassis X6571 which was used on the XS sound loco (S/S 389). Both yours and the possible replacement chassis appear to be the long wheelbase version but the body/chassis fixing is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, Going Spare said: Have a look at tender chassis X6571 which was used on the XS sound loco (S/S 389). Both yours and the possible replacement chassis appear to be the long wheelbase version but the body/chassis fixing is different. @Going Spare thanks, it looks like the same chassis, but I was hoping to find one with metal weight and wiring, decoder sockets, included like @ColinB suggested for Princess tender X7585 which I already have for Princess loco. The body of tender from Merchant Navy will not fit this chassis X7585, so next option is what you suggested to use X6571. Or if someone else have idea which chassis to use which comes with wheels, weight, wiring for decoder, all included suitable for this Merchant navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 13 minutes ago, Deem said: @Going Spare thanks, it looks like the same chassis, but I was hoping to find one with metal weight and wiring, decoder sockets, included like @ColinB suggested for Princess tender X7585 which I already have for Princess loco. The body of tender from Merchant Navy will not fit this chassis X7585, so next option is what you suggested to use X6571. Or if someone else have idea which chassis to use which comes with wheels, weight, wiring for decoder, all included suitable for this Merchant navy. Actually Deem is as I suggested earlier in the post. Buy the Duchess tender bottom which gives you the socket, weight and DCC socket. Now here comes the nasty bit, you need to replace the tender bottom wheel retainer on you existing tender with the relevant tender bottom wheel retainer from the latest version of your loco. This gives you a pattern where to cut the hole for the socket. Once you have cut the socket then fit the socket, there is just enough plastic to screw it down, then throw away your old weight and fit the one from the duchess tender with the socket etc. I assume your Merchant Navy is old so a new tender bottom wouldn't fit the tender top, Hornby moved the mounting posts backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 3 minutes ago, ColinB said: Actually Deem is as I suggested earlier in the post. Buy the Duchess tender bottom which gives you the socket, weight and DCC socket. Now here comes the nasty bit, you need to replace the tender bottom wheel retainer on you existing tender with the relevant tender bottom wheel retainer from the latest version of your loco. This gives you a pattern where to cut the hole for the socket. Once you have cut the socket then fit the socket, there is just enough plastic to screw it down, then throw away your old weight and fit the one from the duchess tender with the socket etc. I assume your Merchant Navy is old so a new tender bottom wouldn't fit the tender top, Hornby moved the mounting posts backwards. Thanks @ColinB, will follow your advice. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 On 22/07/2024 at 17:30, Deem said: Thanks @ColinB, will follow your advice. Regards Wish me luck, in the morning I will be attempting to amend X7585 so I can fit the Merchant Navy tender body on this chassis or try to fit 4 pin socket into older chassis with draw bar as well. Ideally I would have preferred to use X7585 chassis but that involve much more work than if I use older chassis and shift the stuff from x7585. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 This post should be posted as a new thread in the HM DCC forum where it will likely get the correct attention. Mod note - referred post split out and moved as requested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) You have probably realised this, but the internals on an early non-DCC re-built Merchant Navy Class body are different to the body on a DCC Ready/Fitted model. So you cannot fit an early body e.g Canadian Pacific onto a DCC Ready Chassis - well not without major surgery. Also when swapping M/N tenders - so you have the correct one for the loco - if you are a purist(😁) you will be aware that of the three types of tenders built for rebuilt Merchant Navy Class loco's, Hornby only produce two. The point to note is that some tenders once fitted to a different loco will create a short when the loco is plugged into the new tender. This is because the pick-up wiring in the tender is the wrong way round - a two minute job to reverse the wires in the tender. Edited August 25 by Bulleidboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) @ColinB have mentioned that in this post as well. Edited August 25 by Deem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 59 minutes ago, Bulleidboy said: You have probably realised this, but the internals on an early non-DCC re-built Merchant Navy Class body are different to the body on a DCC Ready/Fitted model. So you cannot fit an early body e.g Canadian Pacific onto a DCC Ready Chassis - well not without major surgery. Also when swapping M/N tenders - so you have the correct one for the loco - if you are a purist(😁) you will be aware that of the three types of tenders built for rebuilt Merchant Navy Class loco's, Hornby only produce two. The point to note is that some tenders once fitted to a different loco will create a short when the loco is plugged into the new tender. This is because the pick-up wiring in the tender is the wrong way round - a two minute job to reverse the wires in the tender. Tender wiring in all Hornby locos is random. Hornby haven't quite grasped the concept of standardisation, but the good news is I now understand while when I was at work why I had to suffer all those ISO reviews. A lot of the time is because the 4 pin connector is soldered in 180 degrees out. If you buy them as a separate part they seem to all be like that but it depends which loco they were meant for. I don't know about the bodies as I have never tried doing that, I do know the early ones had a weight where they later fitted the DCC socket, but if you move the socket to the tender it becomes irrelevant. Tenders as I stated in another thread are a nightmare as they moved the mounting points on the newer ones so you have to carefully fit the socket to your original one. Anyway thank you Bulliedboy for the information. I must admit I am normally modifying old tenders so I have never noticed the change of wiring on the different types of tenders. The newer ones very rarely become available as second hand items. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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