Hornby Locomotion No1

[robcat]

Does anyone know the sound decoder which will fit into Locomotion No1 (when it is released).  Hornby site says next 18 and recommends HM7000 but also that this decoder is too big for NEM space requirements so how will that work?

Does the HM7000 only work with bluetooth,?  as i don't want that, only useful to me for DCC NCE procab

I am trying to preorder ready fitted with sound decoder but various suppliers don't know if a next 18 will fit until model is received, seems very strange?  How can I preorder when I don't know what I am getting

Also  will the Accurascale  coal wagons with magnetic chain couplings fit the Locomotion couplings?

thanks

 

[What About The Bee]

Hello Robcat

While I cannot answer your question about a sound decoder for Locomotion No.1, I can answer your question about the couplings.

I wrote to Carl, Director of Engineering at Hornby, to ask that very question.  Here is what he said:

÷÷÷

The answer to your question, locomotion will be supplied with the following;

1) Moulded chain type coupling – suitable for Hornby era 1 rolling stock.
2) A metal chain type coupling with magnet – to mate with Accurascale Chaldrons.
3) A metal chain with a moulded NEM plug – That can be connected to any piece of rolling stock that has an NEM pocket.

÷÷÷

Hope that helps.

Bee

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, robcat said:

Does anyone know the sound decoder which will fit into Locomotion No1 (when it is released).  Hornby site says next 18 and recommends HM7000 but also that this decoder is too big for NEM space requirements so how will that work?

Does the HM7000 only work with bluetooth,?  as i don't want that, only useful to me for DCC NCE procab

I am trying to preorder ready fitted with sound decoder but various suppliers don't know if a next 18 will fit until model is received, seems very strange?  How can I preorder when I don't know what I am getting

Also  will the Accurascale  coal wagons with magnetic chain couplings fit the Locomotion couplings?

thanks

 

Well if it is a next18 then Zimo do some really small sound decoders but you never know with Hornby. Does anyone know where this is in Hornby's build cycle?

[Rallymatt]

@robcat all HM 7000 decoders are fully compatible with NMRA/NEM compliant systems. They are a traditional DCC decoder with additional OTA BT control via Hornby’s HM DCC App, You can switch between both systems as you prefer. Equally the loco will work with any compliant N18 decoder. The HM 7000 N18 decoder is a larger footprint to accommodate the BT antenna, currently neither NMRA or NEM standards have a specification for BT decoders but Hornby are also working on smaller BT decoders but no indication of when they will be released. 
My advice would be to wait and see closer to release date of Locomotion No 1. There will be lots of options 

Edited August 21 by Rallymatt

[96RAF]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

Does the HM7000 only work with bluetooth,?  as i don't want that, only useful to me for DCC NCE procab

Out of the box a 7K decoder works on regular DCC. The BT bit is simply a way of allowing the decoder to talk to and be controlled by an app as a separate functionality.

[Going Spare]

@ColinB The website quotes 'Expected Autumn 2024' so, if that estimate holds good, the model can not be very far off leaving the factory to allow for 6+ weeks on the water plus processing in the UK.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, Rallymatt said:

@robcat all HM 7000 decoders are fully compatible with NMRA/NEM compliant systems. They are a traditional DCC decoder with additional OTA BT control via Hornby’s HM DCC App, You can switch between both systems as you prefer. Equally the loco will work with any compliant N18 decoder. The HM 7000 N18 decoder is a larger footprint to accommodate the BT antenna, currently neither NMRA or NEM standards have a specification for BT decoders but Hornby are also working on smaller BT decoders but no indication of when they will be released. 
My advice would be to wait and see closer to release date of Locomotion No 1. There will be lots of options 

Actually N18 is probably the one that doesn't, I am sure there was a post about it. It is too large to fit most N18 applications. I bought a Bachmann DMU that had an N18 and it definitively wouldn't have fitted that. In the end I bought a Zimo sound decoder.

[ColinB]

37 minutes ago, Going Spare said:

@ColinB The website quotes 'Expected Autumn 2024' so, if that estimate holds good, the model can not be very far off leaving the factory to allow for 6+ weeks on the water plus processing in the UK.

Thank you Going Spare for the information.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, 96RAF said:

Out of the box a 7K decoder works on regular DCC. The BT bit is simply a way of allowing the decoder to talk to and be controlled by an app as a separate functionality.

96RAF I was responding to the previous post I know full well it works on DCC as this is how I use them. You obviously cut the wrong bit of my response.

[Brew Man]

Yes, I think Rob was responding to the OP.

[96RAF]

1 hour ago, Brew Man said:

Yes, I think Rob was responding to the OP.

I was. The quote selection misinterpreted where the selection was from.

[What About The Bee]

11 hours ago, robcat said:

I am trying to preorder ready fitted with sound decoder but various suppliers don't know if a next 18 will fit until model is received, seems very strange?  How can I preorder when I don't know what I am getting

 

Hi @robcat

Locomotion No.1 comes "DCC Ready", not "DCC Fitted".  Further, on the Hornby webpages, R30346 has been marked "unavailable" for many months now.  This means is sold out on pre-order.

You must therefore be purchasing Locomotion No.1 from a model shop, who will fit the decoder for you.

With Locomotion No.1 in high demand, you would be best served by placing your order with your model shop now and not waiting, as someone else may get there before you. [Edit: and to beat the 1 Sept price rise]

With the model secured, have the model shop fit the decoder later.  That is exactly what they are telling you.  They cannot be sure what Hornby is to supply.  So they are being cautious.  

As to HM7000, that recommendation appears for many locomotives when shopping.  It's really an advertisement for HM7000. Treat that as you will.

Bee

Edited August 21 by What About The Bee

[Rallymatt]

In light of Bee’s comment, when I said wait, I was referring to the decoder option rather than the model itself. It’s been sold out on pre-order for a while now so likely to be more challenging to secure one from the first batch. With the Anniversary of S&DR accelerating rapidly towards us, I can see a second batch being made available in time for that too, but no one knows if it will be the as preserved version due or the ‘original’ ? 

[What About The Bee]

I think it will be very unlikely that Hornby release Locomotion No.1 as 'Active' for the S&DR Anniversary.  

For commercial reasons.  Hornby have expended a good bit of resources to bring this model to fruition.  That should not go to waste.

For public eye reasons.  The public has observed Locomotion No.1 as it was after restoration in 1857 by the Shildon Works.  For more than 150 years, the public has a view of what Locomotion No.1 should look like.  Active is not that.  

For practical reasons.  Active's valve gear, as portrayed by Longridge, is very much like the Killingworth Locomotive.

Nicholas Wood, 1825.

The front piston and connecting rods drive the front axle, on both sides.  The rear piston drives the rear axle on both sides.   Unlike a more modern steam engine, the quartering is by axle, not by which side of the axle.  On Active, the rear axle is quartered to the front axle, not the left wheels to the right wheels. The chain in the Killingworth Locomotive is present to retain the quartering. For Active, Longridge does not portray any timing chain, and the sketch by Backhouse has the cable stays drawn, but not any timing chains.  This arrangement was so poor, that Robert Stephenson and Co refitted Active's valve gear in 1828.  To what is not precisely known, as the Shildon Works 'restored' Locomotion No.1 in 1857.  

For practical reasons, duplicating a poorly functioning valve gear arrangement is a terrible idea.

Would I buy as Active, instead of Locomotion No.1?

In a heart beat.  But it may be quite the wait.

Bee
 

Edited August 21 by What About The Bee

[robcat]

Thank you very much to all. as I am in New Zealand it will probably be best to pre order from UK ASAP before its too late and get the supplier to fit whatever sound decoder is possible when model comes in to shop. "The engine shed" Hornby site does say provision is to be made for a sugar cube speaker in the tender so room for a sound decoder seems very likely.

I have oo gauge "Lion" and that is fitted with sound and looking at the prototype videos the boiler looks very similar (possibly the same design with a few altered bits)and the tender is a little bigger .

I am not sure about a suitable soundfile being available yet , has anyone heard anything about that?

Thanks

[What About The Bee]

2 hours ago, robcat said:

 I am not sure about a suitable soundfile being available yet , has anyone heard anything about that?

There are no sound recordings of Locomotion No.1.  It was put into preservation long before Edison perfected sound recordings.  Even at the 50 year anniversary of the S&DR when Locomotion was steamed, it was still too early.  At the Centenary celebration, it wasn't Locomotion, but rather a similar looking locomotive.  Even at that, I do not recall that film having sound.   I could be wrong, but it was 1925.  Films did not have sound then.

What we do know is that the pistons were double acting and therefore, four chuffs per wheel revolution.  The National Railway Museum commissioned a study published in 2023, a photograph from that presented here

The steam chest is in the foreground, the cylinder in the background.  The valve gear that drives the slide valve may be discovered in the Killingworth Locomotive drawing.  Start with the diagonal rods, working outwards.  

Hornby's OO Locomotion No.1 has the round topped steam chests, as shown   I have already checked.  

As to what Locomotion No.1 really sounded like? Your guess is as good as mine.  Any 4 chuff/rev sound file should give the basic impression. Pick one. The usual fine print about the synchronization of sound applies

Bee

[robcat]

Thanks for that, maybe the same soundfile that was used for "Rocket" or the one for "Lion" might be ok? The trumpet sound could well have been compatible

Any views on that please?

[What About The Bee]

Hi Robcat

I would like to compliment Hornby at this moment.  It would have been so easy to market OO Locomotion No.1 as era 1.  Yet, there were at least three versions of Locomotion prior to 1840.  One of those versions had twin chimneys, side by side!   What was Hornby to model?  What was Hornby to pick?  Hornby wisely markets OO Locomotion No.1 as era 11; as preserved.  

Which means that there is an anachronistic feature which is sure to catch the eye.  Prominent at the front of the boiler.  Anachronistic because it was fitted in 1883, during its (presumably static) visit to the USA

Of course, it is the bell.

What ever sound file you choose, make sure that you have a bell you can ring.  The bell was likely rigged as a clapper on a pull rope.  Single bell ring per pull.  DING!

As to a trumpet?  The trumpet was codified as part of Liverpool and Manchester Railway rules for specific blocks of track, and the LMR was highly influential to other railways.  Locomotion No.1 had service records extending to 1840.  With that overlap, it is possible that a trumpet could have been used on the S&DR, but I simply do not know.  Different railway, different rules.

Bee

Edited August 24 by What About The Bee

[robcat]

Thanks Bee. Your historical knowledge of railways is much appreciated, thanks for sharing with us. Very interesting.

[What About The Bee]

You are quite welcome @robcat.  Happy to share what little I know.

Bee