Alanburford9101 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 Hi all I bought a secondhand Flying Scotsman which runs fine but the front bogie seems so light that it easily leaves the track and causes a short. Any suggestions what I can do to solve this problem? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 There are so many versions of the FS, but 1st thing is to ensure that the bogie has been mounted correctly to start with. After that, knowing just how to hold some locomotives to avoid damaging the extra detailing can be quite difficult. It could be possible that somebody held / clamped it firmly smokebox top and under the bogie, which MIGHT have pushed in the mounting, meaning it's very light on the rails. Are the wheels actually touching the rails properly when placed on the track? When lifting off the track, does the bogie momentarily remain or the instant the drivers are clear of the rails so is the bogie? There is always a certain 'degree of floppiness' for want of better description, which permits the bogie to site properly. Do not bend the bogie mount too much as this could lift the drivers off the rails, losing traction / adhesion - it's a fine compromise. Another key consideration, and possibly through poor handling, is to check the B2B ( back to back ). This is measured between flanges and should be ~14.3-14.4mm. Considerably less could have the bogie falling down, considerably more could have similar but different consequences. Al. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanburford9101 Posted September 21 Author Share Posted September 21 Hi I have checked the loco on the track at close quarters and I notice the front wheel pair of the front bogie locking up. Is this just a matter of lubrication? The is no way of accessing these. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 Hi Alan, you should be able to remove the front bogie quite easily. Cleaning will certainly ease this. It would be preferred to gently, carefully remove the wheels from the bogie - keep as straight as possible so as not to deform the wheels. Degrease and clean the axle, similarly the hole(s) the axle goes into, then carefully press, keeping straight, back into place. The axle / wheels should spin freely in the bogie. Add a couple of drops of light oil to lubricate and ensure the B2B is 14.3-14.4 mm as described above. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Any progress on this? Just curious. Should be a 'simple fix'. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanburford9101 Posted September 22 Author Share Posted September 22 Hi. Im ok with removing the bogie from the loco but not sure how to remove the wheels an axles from the bogie. Your help would be appreciated. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alanburford9101 said: Hi. Im ok with removing the bogie from the loco but not sure how to remove the wheels an axles from the bogie. Your help would be appreciated. Alan If I recall correctly, also as explained by @atom3624, these wheels are slightly tight push fit on to axle, if you try one side to pull out, either the wheel will come off the axle or other side wheel with fix axle will come out. Cleaning the axle and bogie will remove dirt which should help to run the wheels freely or maybe need drop of oil as well. Edited September 22 by Deem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-380474 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 (edited) The question must be... are the front wheels derailing at a specific point on your layout? I find that each and every loco of mine found a specific point on my layout to have trouble with. This has resulted in small tweaks to the curves, dremelling down sharp bits on the turnouts and occasionally raising one rail at a particular place by a millimetre or so. I call this 'fettling'. Light front bogies are particularly sensitive to anything a bit off on the track. P.S. I use Peco code 75 for my pains. (and my layout is full of curves and with a plethora of turnouts, crossings and single slips- no nice straight run of track anywhere). Hope this helps. paul Edited September 23 by Paul-380474 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanburford9101 Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 Hi Paul, yes Ive had track problems as well, which I've sorted out. I use Peco code 100 track. But in this case the front bogie wheels lock, even on a straight sections. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanburford9101 Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 Hi again. I'm new to DCC and 2-rail operation (had HD 3-rail all my life) and find that my Peco track has to be exactly right. I thought this was a problem just with my layout. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 It might be interesting to verify the actual gauge between the rails at various places - points, straights, joins, centre of tracks, curves - and get an idea how much they vary. That the wheels don't turn, are they physically stiff when turned by hand, or they're just not making enough contact to turn. My earlier comments on removing, cleaning, B2B still stand - I've had a few 'go stiff' on me - mainly Black 5's. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanburford9101 Posted September 23 Author Share Posted September 23 Hi, But when running on a straight piece of track I can see the front wheels stop turning and the start turning again. I can turn them by hand. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 3 minutes ago, Alanburford9101 said: Hi, But when running on a straight piece of track I can see the front wheels stop turning and the start turning again. I can turn them by hand. Alan I would suggested that you follow @atom3624 advice, clean the axles and make sure B2B are correct (back to back gap between wheels should be 14.5, tool for that purpose looks like this if you follow the link, https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/back-to-back-ooho-standard-14-5mm/). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 I'm sort-of thinking that whilst 14.5mm might be correct, with some track and in certain conditions, it's a bit 'tight'. I'm finding 14.3-14.4mm 'gapped' wheelsets seem to perform more consistently. I do use the same DCC tool, but keep the adjustment on the tight side of acceptable. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 The problem with strictly relying upon the back to back is that it ignores the wheel profile and how that engages the track. The thickness of the flange and the interior radius from the flange as it transitions to the drum of the tread will determine how the wheels sit on the track. The width of the drum of the tread is equally ignored when merely setting back to back. Yet the width of the drum, when considered with the front to back, will control how the wheel transitions through a frog. As a first order control, setting the back to back is very useful. Yet under the British Model Railway system, no manufacturer follows any standard other than their own, and each is poorly documented. The entire conglomeration of rail profile, wheel profile and frog profiles is a holistic system. A system. Not just a standard back to back setting, independent of random manufacturer. Rant over. Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 This is where and why I was asking which Scottie it was. Older locomotives have thicker flanges, so whilst the B2B can be 'correct', with the thicker flanges, the outer parts which actually face the rails can be perhaps too close. What would be preferable would be an equivalent 'gapping device' which helped you set it according to the outsides of the wheel rims - presumably this would be ~15.5-15.8mm (leaving 0.35-0.50mm each side slop). Al. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 (edited) Apologies @atom3624 That rant was not directed at you, although in retrospect, I can see how you might perceive it that way. Not my intention. 2 hours ago, atom3624 said: What would be preferable would be an equivalent 'gapping device' which helped you set it according to the outsides of the wheel rims I do suppose a gapping device could be made, but it would need to be "per wheel profile". Hallelujah, no! The problem with this is that the inside of the flange is at a steep angle, with a relieved inside corner to the tread of the drum and the thickness of the flange at root is per manufacturer. So to accurately set the gap, our profil-gap-o-meter (trademark pending) needs to match the profile. What do I think the actual solution is? The fierce British Independence you lot are known for is working directly against us. We need a standard, like the NMRA RP-25 standard for wheels. We need a track and point standard. Once that is actually in place, and the cats to be herded¹ obey, then the simple back-to-back gauge will absolutely work. Alternatively, the crystal clear discussion over the proper back to back, Like this one, will continue. Bee ¹ Herd of cats: British manufacturers of model railway kit. Accurascale, Peco, Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol etc al. Edited September 23 by What About The Bee Thickness of flange added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 I'm curious - may get bored and try to measure mine one day - just how variable the 'set-track' is, particularly one which has been used, perhaps heavily. My 'temporary track' has been on my garage floor for at least 18 months, and has seen quite a lot of varied - speed, load, type - action. Currently the Pendolino still occupies the outer loop (outer and inner become 'common' - single track - for perhaps 20% of the circuit - location and available space) and whilst 50-55% is more than adequate and close to 'appropriate' (scale speeds around the 120 mph mark) it's quite fun cranking her up to full for up to 10, ridiculously fast circuits, hope the top / tail + 10 stay on (they do, just!!) and seeing a circuit 'demolished' to coin a phrase in perhaps 6 seconds which take a scale 80 mph train closer to 25-30" - shouldn't do it, I know!! The point I'm making is the centripetal force, certainly against the track 'chairs' must force them to the state of partial deformation, thus will probably have a few areas where that 16.5mm between the rails may be brought into question .... Incidentally, definitely no offence, I am a Scouser, and Evertonian - both mean I've endured quite a lot and still laugh, a lot!! Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-380474 Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 19 hours ago, Alanburford9101 said: Hi, But when running on a straight piece of track I can see the front wheels stop turning and the start turning again. I can turn them by hand. Alan Absolutely you should get these axles and wheels free wheeling by using lubrication and cleaning first, else nowt else will make sense. The wheels should spin for a second or two when you flick them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 (edited) I seem to recall that one company - might be DCC Concepts do or did two or three slightly varying gauges of B-B tools which would enable slight adjustment if/when required. Or maybe I made that up 🙃 Edited September 24 by Brew Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 This is the standard one from them which we all have - I have and check every locomotive and coach / wagon I receive within the 1st week. Full range can be seen here: https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-category/track-and-track-making-parts/dccconcepts-track-gauges/ Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now