Elite / Elink Control PC requirements?

[KaCee]

I am currently in the process of building my layout. I am starting small but planning big... the final layout will be 2 18 ft x 5 ft tables with a crossover connecting them. At the moment I am still only using a select as my layout hasnt grown much yet

 

( currently only completed about 8 ft x 5 ft on 1 of the tables ). I have been looking at ordering a Elite, but now I am thinking I might hold off and just go with E-link instead.

 

My problem is, I do have a PC in the room to use, but it isn't my main

 

pc, it is an old cast-off. It is quite old and slow.

 

What kind of PC specs do i need to run E-link and railmaster effectively?

[poliss]

You'll need to look at the specs for Railmaster. That's the program eLink uses.

[Gregd99]

Interestingly, as far as I can see the railmaster manual contains no spec of the requirements of the PC. It does say win95 to win7 are supported. This tends to indicate that the requirements of railmaster are small.

[KaCee]

I am struggling to find the requirements as well.

 

The PC I am looking at is a Windows XP machine with 256 MB of RAM. Im not sure of the CPU speed but it is't great.

 

Supposing the software will run on win95, will cross my fingers and try the

 

evaluation before I buy anything.

 

Could anyone tell me though, I have read a couple places that Railmaster now supports the Select controller, with some optional cable.

 

Can anyone tell me where to get one of those to test with?

[wiggy25]

The cable to connect the Select is listed in the RailMaster manual but that is all.

There has been no official release or announcement, it could turn into vapor-ware, like the Access 1 IR controller.....remember that! :-)

It is alleged to be in

 

development, but that's also along with the detection system and that has been going on for at least a year, so I wouldn't hold my breath on anything soon.

 

I run RailMaster on a little Netbook that runs XP and it works fine on that.

Best thing to

 

do is download the evaluation version and give it a go see if it works, you can still do this to make sure the program runs OK, but unless you have an Elite you won't be doing anything else, until the E-link is available.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

KaCee

 

said:

 

I am struggling to find the requirements as well.

 

The PC I am looking at is a Windows XP machine with 256 MB of RAM. Im not sure of the CPU speed but it is't great.

 

Supposing the software will run on win95, will cross my fingers

 

and try the evaluation before I buy anything.

 

Could anyone tell me though, I have read a couple places that Railmaster now supports the Select controller, with some optional cable.

 

Can anyone tell me where to get one of those to test with?

[KaCee]

Yea, that's what I was afraid of...

 

I don't want to buy an elite to test if I wont need it with E-link. Guess I will just have to wait and buy it untested.

[LMSTim]

RailMaster requires very low PC specs. I've had it running on a 10 year old Pentium 4 running Windows 98. If you bear in mind it will even run on Windows 95 (which first ran on 386 machines (15 years ago) then it clearly requires low CPU and RAM.

 

You

 

can still use an evaluatin version even without the Elite because you will get a measure of how smoothly it all runs, even if it isn't actually controlling locos.

[KaCee]

Good point actually. I might install the tester just to see how smoothly the pc handles it. Thanks

[Mike_G]

Hi All

 

Now dont get me wrong here

I think the E-Link is a very good idear

 

but it makes me spit,

 

once again the goal posts have been moved before the game in play has finished

 

When hornby first annonced the proposed DCC system

Elite/Railmaster

 

& all the bits to go with it including an advanced detection system

I was at the point of starting a new layout, so i said OK lets support a UK company

and go with this

 

so purchased hornby points(28)& track, DCC equipment ( reverse modual/point

 

decoders(4) Elite + Select/ Point motors )

and started to build , the detection system has been a long time now just vapour ware

but never mind, it will come ( allways soon :=) )

So i have thetrack layed, points in and working, turntable in and working,

 

Railmaster up and running,

Its now 3 years , and still waiting for the detection system, can not go any further with layout because need to know how detection system will be installed, so no ballast/senery can be started,

I wait and Wait,

Then they

 

say we can have Network so several control stations can be set up ( very nice )

until you find out you need to buy a full copy of Railmaster for each station :=(

Still waiting for detection info !!!!????

now they bring out e-Link ( as i say, NICE

 

)

just have to throw away my 300 quids worth of Elite/select

so now we have moved to Hornby DCC stage 2

but still waiting for detection system

and by the way,, does this e-link work with 2 laptop stations networked togeather ?????

cant see

 

any mention about that anywere

I think that Hornby have a good product here, but they are going to lose support because they can never finish anything, have no product time line

before you bring out improvements you need to get the basic system to market

or

 

you wont have a market for very long

 

just my little niggle here,, but i here others starting to say the same thing,

 

I hope someone in Hornby reads these forums, because someone there needs to sit up and listen to the street word,, at at this

 

moment its not roses

 

Mike

 

[KaCee]

I understand what you are saying Mike. It always sucks when things don't show up as announced.

 

I'm still a bit of a novice, so I don't know what an advanced detection system is, so that part doesn't bother me personally.

 

The E-link doesn't

 

mention multiple laptops, but it does mention smartphones and tablets.... that's more what I am hoping for. Plug the e-link into my PC base station, then run most things from my Galaxy Tablet and my S3 phone.

[Graskie]

A thought that occurred to me recently. Will you be able to program locos direct from the E-Link? At the moment I have to do that from my Elite as, unless I'm wrong, you can't do that from RailMaster.

[poliss]

I read on the Hornby FB page that eLink in principle is an Elite but without all the controllers.

[stevecamden]

Yes - but it doesn't make marketing sense - we must be missing something. The Elite costs £180 - flea bay will be awash with them if everyone goes to this Elink/4amp device.

 

As for the detection - well goodness knows whats happening. I do think

 

Hornby have to get their marketing judgements right here - there is a chance with Railmaster for a low cost excellent automation package - just needs that last important push...

[poliss]

You're looking at the price, not the cost steve. Think profit margins.Box with knobs and buttons cost lots more than a black box. As for detection. How many people actually use it?

[Gregd99]

An interesting discussion with a few different points.....

 

Automation is of great interest to me. My layout will run itself with lights, loco detection, locos running, point control..... I have done this with jmri, an elite, various decoders and

 

some home brew hardware. Personally, I think model rail control without detection doesn't make sense.

 

But.... railmaster is not aimed at the sophisticated end of the market. Lots of people have said that auto running would bore them to tears! From the

 

recent releases of tablet software it seems reasonably clear to me that Hornby sees more business at the less-sophisticated end of the market. Railmaster is cheap and simple to use. It is not very sophisticated (see * below) but I think that this is a decision

 

rather than an oversight.

 

Detection would seem to have been a lower priority and this has upset some people (eg me) but in the end it seems that not many users are demanding it either.

 

If something is happening there are probably some on the

 

forum that have been doing testing but they will be bound by confidentiality agreements. It would be better to raise this query with HCC. Who knows they might have something to tell us.

 

Do be aware that when you have loco detection you then need some

 

sort of enhance scripting capability. For example… stop loco at location X is obvious…. But what about stop loco at red signal… and set signal Y to colour Z when loco is detected at sensor T? detection by itself is not very interesting.

 

Have fun.

 

Greg

 

--------------------

*

 

When I talk about sophistication I am thinking about capabilities in jmri. As well as providing tools for creating layouts, operating lights and points and running trains jmri makes the entire source code open and provides a scripting language that can access

 

all of the software functionality available to the person writing the scripts.

 

This approach means that enthusiasts can add new bits to the programme. These can be for automated running, for speed calculations, operations management.....

 

The

 

scripting language is jython which is a full blown object oriented language not a simple "run for 10 seconds, stop, reverse..."

 

These capabilities are fantastic for me. I have written more than 10,000 lines of scripts that provide customised loco dashboards,

 

auto running..... You can do anything that you want but you need to work for it.

 

For others these sorts of ideas make their eyes glaze over.

 

I don't think that Hornby will ever make railmaster as capable as jmri but that is not the market they

 

are seeking.

 

[Gregd99]

now to e-link + railmaster.

 

e-link is said to have the same capabilities as the elite minus the knobs and display. It follows that railmaster will need to have the same user interface capabilities as the elite - eg CV programming, throttle, coal/water

 

for sapphire... - I am not sure if this is the case yet as I am not a railmaster user.

 

railmaster costs 65 GBP. adding an e-link is only 20 GBP more including a 1A power supply. This is a fantastic price. Add a 4A transformer for 38 GBP giving a total

 

of 123 GBP.

 

an elite + railmaster would cost 285 GBP!!

 

having said that... I like the knobs on the elite! with my pc control I have slider bars available on the pc for throttle control. I don't like these as I need to use the mouse but what

 

if I put the saving above towards a touch screen. that would be interesting.

 

it will be interesting to see if the elite continues as a stand-alone product when its price is so dramatically undercut by e-link.

[LMSTim]

There seems to be a misconception among some people on here that the eLink replaces the Elite and therefore makes any investment in the latter redundant. This is definitely not the case.

 

One can complain about a company producing a new gadget which

 

apparently undermines previous ones. Firstly, this is not the case here and secondly, Hornby must move forward. There is no doubt that Hornby, as a mainstream manufacturer, are breaking new ground with the eLink and RailMaster. As far as I can tell this has

 

never been done before commercially. Sure, there is JMRI and SPROG but those are an absolute nightmare to set up compared with RailMaster. No one can argue that point.

 

Let's face it, RailMaster appeals to 99.99% of model railway enthusiasts because

 

of its simplicity. The other programs out there are a pig to set up and use. I know, I have used most of them. They are for the tiny minority of enthusiasts who want to go that little bit further. I wouold also add that none of the other programs have a stable

 

of 1600 locos built in, true scale speed operation at all scales and superb touch-screen operation. We are wuick to forget these things.

 

As for loco detection. This is the way I see it. Hornby are comitted to producing loco detection, but it's not at

 

the top of the list. Why? Simple ... because the vast majority of users do not want or need it as much as, say, the hand-held devices. We know that loco detection will enhance operation of especially larger and more complex layouts, but it is not actually

 

a requirement to automate if you are clever with the programming. Also, the vast majority of Hornby users have average layouts, say, 6' x 8' and are over 55 years old. They just want a solution they can install and works out-of-the-box.

 

Things like

 

support for all those hand-held platforms (remember they even support old Palm and Windows CE/Mobile devices to make it cheaper for people without devices to get into wireless control) is far more important at this stage. Also, the new voice control system

 

is clearly going to bring onboard more users, especially children, which are badly needed otherwise Hornby may cease to exist in 20 years time.

 

At the current pace of development, just think where RailMaster will be just this time next year and then

 

five years from now.

 

You need to balance everything out. I hear people moan about lack of a partcicular coach or a particular loco in a particular livery. Hornby are a Plc company and as such must please "most" of the people "most" of the time, which

 

I believe they do. No company can please everybody, not even Apple, with $100billion in the bank!

 

Remember that RailMaster only came out a year and a half ago. I think they have developed it wonderfully in such a short space of time, when you consider

 

that others have been out there for 15+ years and not made such a large impact. None of the others, for example, have voice control and there is a third party company selling such a system for well over £100 alone.

 

What we need to do is wait. There

 

is no doubt in my mind that RailMaster is improving at a rapid pace and that loco detection hardware will be produced, otherwise, what is the point of all the loco detection-based functionality that has already been present in the program for all to see for

 

some time. Loco detection is complex. It is far superior to block occupancy detection, which packages like JMRI use. Loco detection, on the other hand 'knows' which loco has passed a point, its direction and speed. Just imagine what you will be able to do

 

with such information.

 

Many, many railway modellers I speak with love RailMaster. They think is it a great product which adds a completely new (and simple) way to "play" with trains. The problem is, of course, especially in the UK, that only people

 

who complain get heard. You don't tend to see praise for anything on forums, only complaints. That is a sad indictment of the way people think in this country.

 

Anyway, end of sermon. Have a happy New Year all!

 

[Mike_G]

Hi Greg

I here what you say about scripts and automation

and i have tried this

to a point it works, but no matter how you fine tune it it will not run the same each time

if you script 1 loco to do something ( move from A to B ) B will never

 

be the same point

if you then send another comand to say a point or another loco while the first script is running, then it will never be anywere near B, this is due to the prosessor using a few ticks to execute the second comand, using detection instead

 

of time eliminates this because the detection point is always at the same point,

 

for me i have a terminus to hidded storage

i need to be able to have a couple of EMU,s running from the terminus to the hidded storage, wait a set time and then return,

this

 

will be automatic ( no user intervention )

while this is in action i would be shunting in the Yard/Dock or MPD

when i have a goods consit marshaled i would send this to the hidden sidings to wait there untill i was ready to bring it back,

the EMU,s

 

would take priority so onece their route is activated the points would lock untill it had cleared the section and the lights would be red against me proceding with the goods consist , it is here that detection scores over a timed script

in fact this would

 

not work with timed scripts, i know , i have tried it

hope this makes things clear and why the detection system is important,

 

Mike

 

[LMSTim]

Since you have a terminus and sidings, why don't you get the program to stop at each, as you already do, then slowly drive forward into the buffer for around 3 or 4 seconds. That way you are calibrating the locos every time they reach the ends of your

 

layout, thus eliminating the build of of timing errors due to dirt on the track, incosistent motor running etc.

 

I do that myself and have some pretty sophisticated programs running without the need for detection. I run the locos so slowly into the buffers

 

that you can hardly see it. I then get the program to move them away from the buffers a couple of cm so that they look right, whilst waiting to move off.

 

[Mike_G]

Hi LMSTim

 

Sorry but you are completly wrong, it wont work like that, I also have spent hours at this approch, to take one example

2 coach EMU

place in the station a couple of cm away from buffers

switch on the record option and go through

 

the sequence ( station announce/bells whistles etc/drive the unit out of station into Hidden siding / wait 2mins / drive back to station / slow down stop, ) stop recording

on playback it will not do the exact thing

sometimes stops well short of siding/

 

sometimes over runs,

same on return Sometimes stops short of station / sometimes runns full speed into buffers

 

try fine tuning the recording, same thing , it will never repeat the sequence 2 times in the same manner

and this is without touching

 

anything else on the layout

one you start to move another loco somewere else on the layout it goes completly to pot

you dont even have to move it, just having it go through the sound startup routine in enough to throw it out

Now it would appear that

 

you have an inside contact/relationship with hornby

and you defend them to the teeth , thats well and good, but dont try misleading the general public

what hornby are doing is very good in the long run, and their price is also extreamly low for the equipment

 

on offer, but if they keep changing the game play it is going to send people else where, as for running into the buffers, well that is just plain stupid, it wont be long before you have damaged the stock or the buffers,

 

I am not having ago at you or

 

hornby, and enhancements to the system are welcome, but lets have the system working first,

 

as for your statement that the e-link does not make your Elite redundent is rubbish because it plainly states that you can not have both connected at the same

 

time, ok you can have 2 controlers running on Railmaster, but on completly different districts, and that for most people is not required,

 

yours with respect

Mike

 

[LMSTim]

I would suggest then that something is wrong with your set-up as I do not experience these problems as all.

 

Are you running other software at the same time which are hogging CPU resources? This can easily cause the clock in RailMaster not to record

 

or playback accurately. It records in hundredths of a second and plays back in tenths, I believe.

 

I would suggest you close all open programs, even ones you think aren't doing anything, like antivirus software (some of which can use up to 50% of your

 

CPU) then try again.

 

You mustn't assume that, because it doesn't run smoothly on your system, it must be a fault with the software. There are so many things on a PC which affect the smooth-running of other software. I know as I have been in the I.T.

 

business for 30 years.

 

 

[Gregd99]

Mike_G said:

I hear what you say about scripts and automation.... but no matter how you fine tune it it will not run the same each time

Mike,
I have not be been clear in my post. automated running, beyond trivial examples,

without location detection does not work. pure and simple.

if you run a loco around a 10 metre loop and there is a 1% error then this corresponds to 10cm (4"). if you consider the steps in the control sequence it is easy to imagine a 1% error. For example....

is the decoder completely accurate? was there an internal windows delay in sending the command to stop/start the loco? Did the elite miss the command sent from the pc?

[the answers are i) normally very accurate. my measurements show a fraction of 1%

at a constant speed, ii) this can easily happen. windows is not a real time operating system. iii) this happens randomly but can be around 10%]