Loco Detection (2)

[PJ_model_trains]

Gregd99 said:

St1ngr4y said:

I've been trying to imagine how a layout with LD would be operated.
I have no inside information but I doubt that RM+LD will allow fully automated operation at this stage.

The capabilities seem

to be focused on "when a loco arrives at point x do something". This gives a lot of fun options with play sounds and slowing down in sidings etc.

When you look at auto operation then you need to know the location of every train with respect to each

other and to ensure that blocks are allocated/de-allocated as required with trains being stopped and started as required if signals are set against them and/or blocks are available.

a sequence might go...
1. train 1 is driving from block n to block

n+2
2. if block n+2 is occupied then set signal in block n+2 to red and block n+1 (and possibly n depending on block size and train speed) to yellow
3. as train enters yellow signalled blocks then set speed of train 1 to such that it will stop within

the yellow blocks.
4. when block n+2 becomes free then set signals in blocks n-n+2 to green
5. now signals are green set train 1 speed to the speed determined by signals ahead (n+2, n+3...)

Depending on your interests the sort of programming above

is very interesting (or complicated or boring because you want to drive your own trains)

I think, at least initially, RM will stay away form the complexity of full auto-running.

My layout, when I have time, runs automatically using JMRI. This

was a really interesting project in which I learned an enormous amount about signalling and blocks and... this is code for saying it took a long time to get it right:-)

Hi Gregd99

I agree with so much you are saying and having used and

set up JMRI you are better acquainted then probably most of us here.

As you say 'Depending on your interests the sort of programming above is very interesting (or complicated or boring because you want to drive your own trains' this must be a concern

for Hornby, some will not want it, some will and will succeed but, the rest will either take time and get there or through it out completely. I would imagine from where I am now, on the starting grid, that the system can very easily be made to complicated,

or more complicated than necessary.

I would love to hear your comments on the following if possible as you are more experienced than myself but I am eager to use this and make it work.

My theory in starting to think about my layout so far is,

bearing in mind I am only at that 'thinking about it stage'...

First consider the maximum length of train and track and use that, plus a bit more as my yard stick for my shortest block length. If the odd train is to have a very long rake make it less

than two blocks but treat it as a special situation.

Next consider my main sensor points, before points, near to a signal and if necessary before stations, near to a signal. treat these as my main sensors, I am calling them my level one sensors.

My

next set of sensors would be at a distance before the main sensors, I am calling these my level two sensors. These are not programmed to points or signals but just speed and sound adjusters.

These level two sensors will sound a horn and reduce speed

so that when the train gets to the signal sensor if red it can stop in time.

I would run my locos and check the distance to reduce from top speed to say 20 or 30 depending on location and again from 20 and 30 to check stopping distance. These distances

plus a little would tell me where to put the level two sensors.

I am assuming this first stage of the set up, providing care is taken to calculate length of train and carriages and set zones, then calculate stopping distances and position sensors should

be reasonably easy. The real challenge will start, I think, when we start programming the block ahead and blocks behind and the signals and points related to them and what we are doing or trying to do.

If I am totally wrong please say so, if partly

right again throw your comments, good or bad. I want to get the system and install it as near right as possible.

Thank you for your time and help.

PJ

[Gregd99]

As you say 'Depending on your interests the sort of programming above is very interesting (or complicated or boring because you want to drive your own trains' this must be a concern for Hornby, some will not want it, some will and will succeed

but, the rest will either take time and get there or through it out completely. I would imagine from where I am now, on the starting grid, that the system can very easily be made to complicated, or more complicated than necessary.

I think that

Hornby will stick with relatively straightforward capabilities. They market the system as being easy to use. The other way of saying “easy to use” is “has limitations”. You can’t be all things to all people.

First consider the maximum length

of train and track and use that, plus a bit more as my yard stick for my shortest block length. If the odd train is to have a very long rake make it less than two blocks but treat it as a special situation.

Personally, I think that a block size

should be around 1.5x the max train length. My trains will normally take 2-3 blocks to stop. Having a block around the length of a train is fiddly.

My next set of sensors would be at a distance before the main sensors, I am calling these

my level two sensors. These are not programmed to points or signals but just speed and sound adjusters.

You need to think about signals…. Do you want to manually control the signals and have the train react to them or vice-versa. I would suggest

that setting the signals by hand and then having the train slow down or speed up might be interesting.

PJ it is all fun and hope you enjoy figuring out what you want to do!

[PJ_model_trains]

Gregd99 said:


I think that Hornby will stick with relatively straight forward capabilities. They market the system as being easy to use. The other way of saying “easy to use” is “has limitations”. You can’t be all things to all people.

Good

point Greg

Personally, I think that a block size should be around 1.5x the max train length. My trains will normally take 2-3 blocks to stop. Having a block around the length of a train is fiddly.

I have to juggle

space as my layout is only 7'6" by 4' 6" and has a lot going on. I will therefore not run large rakes I haven't the space.

You need to think about signals…. Do you want to manually control the signals and have the train react to them

or vice-versa. I would suggest that setting the signals by hand and then having the train slow down or speed up might be interesting.

I think this is good advice, although I would like the train to change them, initially I will probably

go for manual setting as you say and get used to it a bit at a time. Small bights are easier to digest as they say.

PJ it is all fun and hope you enjoy figuring out what you want to do!

I will, but at present I

am trying to get as much information as I can, I cannot lift my boards, others have to do it for me, so I take time getting things straight in my mind to ensure when I do put the sensors in I get them right first time if possible. Tags and programming is,

as we know, done above the board or on the computer, that doesn't bother me, it will be fun to tinker with the system, and the trains ;-)

[PJ_model_trains]

@Gregd99

 

Many thanks for your comments and help Greg

 

PJ

 

[Fishmanoz]

Gregd99 said:

I think that we will find that all the detector tells RM is that loco id X has been detected by detector Y.

RM knows where you have position detector Y on the layout from the track schematic. RM can also match the id

X to a specific loco and the associated speed and direction.

From my experience location detectors are quite "dumb" devices. their job is to reliably detect (which can be hard) but everything else is up to the host software on your pc et al.

Greg,

I think you are partly giving the system less credit then it deserves, and partly giving It more.

For a start, I agree I was wrong about the LD system reading direction. I was thinking that the end of the tag that arrived first at a sensor would tell

you what the direction of travel was, assuming the tag has different coding at each end. This is of course wrong, all that can tell you is whether the loco is travelling in a forward or a reverse direction. And as no instructions relate to forward/reverse,

we can conclude the system doesn't include this feature.

But still we have instructions 5-7 which require knowledge of whether the loco is going to the left or the right for them to mean anything. This is known by Rm am though as you set it in the

loco control window, so I conclude it must be reading it from there.

No let's think about the topography of your layout as defined in your schematic. While this info is clearly there in the system, I don't think RM "knows" it in any sense that it would

allow the system to take any action based on it. It only knows that sensors, points, signals etc exist, not where they exist, and can read tags passing sensors, and change points and signals etc when asked to, including conditionally depending the tag IDs

it reads. So when you suggest RM knows the position of a tag, I don't think this is so. It is only you that can see this position and run or program your locos accordingly.

[RDS]

Fishmanoz said:

... So when you suggest RM knows the position of a tag, I don't think this is so....

I wondered if the tags would be marked on the schematic, in which case RM would know where they are and where the trains are

that pass them, provided the schematic is correct?

[Fishmanoz]

And I'm not convinced that RM will not allow full auto running. Consider a running session - you can start by setting the initial conditions yourself, or you can do it in conjunction with programs that both set initial conditions and also run trains. Then,

 

as well as being able to set and change loco speed, signals and points based on detections, you can run programs based on them too. And you can run a different program for each loco up to 5 locos for any given detection (you only have 10 lines of setup space

 

per detector and you need 2 lines to first pick a loco, then run a program).

 

All that together sounds like the ability to do some quite complicated auto running?

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, interesting to think about it as main and level 2 sensors, but remember the level 2 have no different capabilities than the main, it is just what you choose to do with them that differs.

[Fishmanoz]

RDS said:

I wondered if the tags would be marked on the schematic, in which case RM would know where they are and where the trains are that pass them, provided the schematic is correct?

For a start RDS, I made a mistake there,

I meant sensors not tags. Tags are only on locos etc and move with them. Sensors are marked on the schematic and given IDs and contain setup instructions to do things conditionally when detections are made. However, again, I don't believe that just because

they are at a position on your schematic that RM can actually use this position in any way, ether absolutely or relative to other sensors, only you will be able to do this and control and program accordingly.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

PJ, interesting to think about it as main and level 2 sensors, but remember the level 2 have no different capabilities than the main, it is just what you choose to do with them that differs.

The theory of planning

this way is purely for my own benefit, I would call it a tiered level of priorities.
Level one sensors are associated with signals, points and stopping trains if necessary. Level 2 are 'additional sensors' for controlling speed of locos mainly reducing

speed in their run up to the level 1 sensors and also for the odd Hoot, Toot or other sound!

I have all loco CV's/addresses up to 255 in Excel now and can sort them into alphabetical order, first by cv and loco and second by cv with locos in alphabetical

order. Great for comparing the differences. I am currently adding to this MIN, MAX and SET speeds and testing them one by one to calculate/measure stopping distance with reduced speeds. This data also goes in additional columns alongside the cv list so I always

have it to refer to and only do it once.

It is interesting the difference between loco's, I also find that locos with factory fitted sound respond differently to other similar locos without sound. Speeding up and slowing down in tandem with the sound

being important, slowing down with my Royal Signals 4-6-0 with sound has a much further length before stopping. max speed for this is set to 65mph, Min to 15mph but I find running at 50mph more than enough, I will alter this in the Cv addresses, a slower top

speed also reduces stopping distance which is important 'I feel' for loco detection 'for me anyway'.

I am working 'my theory' as follows.
1 - I know the longest length of train/carriages that Plus a bit will determine the minimum block length
2

- I am dividing my layout, all loops etc into blocks based on the above.
3 - Next I am planning the position of sensors, first Level-1 sensors for a signal/points which will have a sensor a short distance away from the signal, probably 5 or 10 mph stopping

distance of the slowest to stop locos. A signal before a station may subject to track/points be the same. A signal from a station will be just outside the station in drivers viewing distance. each having a sensor in the track.
4 - Level 2 sensors will be

the distance from level 1 sensor plus the length it took the slowest train to reduce speed. eg. from say 50mph to 10mph.

I find steam locos with sound the best for testing this theory. A steam loco at full speed ahead sound at 50mph passes level 2

sensor, the trains tag is read, information sent to RM and speed reduced to 10mph which is the speed at the next sensor just before the signal and points (or station). We hear the shunting stop as the loco reduces speed. If set correctly the speed will have

dropped to 10mph just before the next sensor and the shunting sound automatically starts again confirming this. I then know this train has dropped to the right speed before the sensor, if the level 1 sensor picks up that RM says stop due to a red light it

can stop before the signal with enough space. This would then be where IF, THEN, ELSE comes in. If the lights are green when the train tag is detected we will have programmed it to revert back to 50mph.

Theory has to be put into practice and obstacles

will be found no doubt but, hopefully careful planning and listening to everyone else on here will help minimise problems and hopefully the system will work as planned.

RM as a dumb animal, it doesn't know what is where, it doesn't know what points

are where, what signals are where or even what sensor is where. A bit like us using a computer, we see data, we do not see binary or hexadecimal, we do not see the millions of on and off switches that tell it what to do. A signal is a number we put in the

system, points are a numbers, locos are numbers and the loco detection sensors and tags will be numbers also. Loco detection is an excellent name for the system, by adding points, signals, loco detection sensors, etc, RM talks to them on our behalf, an item

address/number or sensors number is passed to RM the rest is down to us, how we program them.

Fantastic and great fun ;-)

I am only sharing what I am doing, or how I am thinking, it may help others, it may raise other comments from members and

hi-lite for me areas I may not have thought of. Together we all learn. Thank you.

[PJ_model_trains]

RDS said:

I wondered if the tags would be marked on the schematic, in which case RM would know where they are and where the trains are that pass them, provided the schematic is correct?

I think it is amazing how far we have

come, partly because Hornby have given us a little bit of information (lets hope they learn) and partly because we are talking together about the system. I reckon we will have a lot to talk about up to and after the loco detection system is available.

I

think back we (some of us) though we would have tags here, there and everywhere (slightly exaggerated) every where being, on locos, carriages, signal posts, etc, etc. We will have them on locos, we may have them on end carriages but we won't have them on signal

posts etc. The sensor is in the track therefore tags can only be read when a train passes a sensor so in the first instance this will be something that passes over it at a distance close enough to be read. Will they work by having a sensor in something at

the side of the track, maybe, we can only wait and see but position of sensors and distance of tags from the sensor will no doubt be very important.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is how I am seeing it now, sensors in track define position of loco,

that information is sent to RM and subject to our programs everything else happens, points, signals, sounds, speed, etc.

This is why I started to look at sensors as level 1, sensors prior to signals, points and stations and level 2 sensors control of

trains approaching level 1 sensors and the sound of whistles and horns etc as necessary. Levels only set by the user to define the installation and use of them.

I would think sensors will be visible in RM but doubt if tags will be. Will the blue box,

loco detection icon in RM move as the loco goes round the track and passes a sensor? Hopefully so but surely we would need to see a name or number to know which it is. I expect we will have to wait until available to see/know this.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

And I'm not convinced that RM will not allow full auto running. Consider a running session - you can start by setting the initial conditions yourself, or you can do it in conjunction with programs that both set initial conditions

and also run trains. Then, as well as being able to set and change loco speed, signals and points based on detections, you can run programs based on them too. And you can run a different program for each loco up to 5 locos for any given detection (you only

have 10 lines of setup space per detector and you need 2 lines to first pick a loco, then run a program).

All that together sounds like the ability to do some quite complicated auto running?

I think there are various view points to consider.

Do

we want to be a train driver or signal man? Greg suggested changing signals manually with good reason, I am sure some will want to do this but others will want signals and points to alter as trains pass as they are the engine driver but, there is another person

still to consider, depending how we run our trains and he/she is the route planner who first plans the routes and sets the timetable. It is fine for a loco to go on route and pass a signal it changes to red and the point changes but for what, for the next

train? That would be if we know which way the next train is going.

I am therefore assuming we can program the various routes for the various trains and program signals and points to work as trains pass them but that we will also be able to over ride

the commands by clicking on the relevant points, signals and STOP buttons LOL. I am sure we will.

It is going to be good fun ;-)

[Fishmanoz]

PJ_model_trains said:

I would think sensors will be visible in RM but doubt if tags will be. Will the blue box, loco detection icon in RM move as the loco goes round the track and passes a sensor? Hopefully so but surely we would need to

see a name or number to know which it is. I expect we will have to wait until available to see/know this.

PJ, tags are on locos, locos don't appear on your schematic, so neither do tags. Tags will be on the underside of locos so they can be read

by sensors mounted in that 1mm hole in a sleeper. Nothing will be trackside, unless of course you want to mount a sensor there to read a tag you put on the side of your loco - I don't think so.

The "blue box LD icon" is a sensor. It doesn't move, it

stays where you put it. It is the only one of the 3 LD system components that appears anywhere in RM.

When you talked earlier about defining blocks and placing sensors, they are of course the same thing. Blocks will only have meaning in RM if they

have a sensor at each end, or a sensor at one end and a buffer stop at the other.

When you think about programming routes or having timetables, or anything else you want that doesn't rely on knowing exactly where your locos are, you already have programming

capability for that in RM and you will be needing to read the manual to familiarise yourself with all of those instructions and how you can put them together. People have been writing complicated programs for ages using the existing capability. The trouble,

and this has been discussed here many times, is knowing only approximately where your locos are and the errors in this being cumulative over time as a program runs. The only solution has been to recalibrate by running against buffer stops where these are available.



But this is the LD thread, not the How do I Write RM Programs for my Layout thread.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

PJ_model_trains said:

I would think sensors will be visible in RM but doubt if tags will be.

PJ, tags are on locos, locos don't appear on your schematic, so neither do tags. Tags will be on the underside of

locos so they can be read by sensors mounted in that 1mm hole in a sleeper.

Hi Fishy

I did say... I would think sensors will be visible in RM but doubt if tags will be?

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

The "blue box LD icon" is a sensor. It doesn't move, it stays where you put it. It is the only one of the 3 LD system components that appears anywhere in RM.

LOCO DETECTION in RM ermmm

So

I put blue loco detection box in a siding but loco is on route else where. That is not loco detection (as I would have expected). I would have thought a loco passes sensor, information sent to RM, RM processes information and moves loco blue box to show where

train is, based on number of sensors in system, loco detection in RM? All this time many people have said, I want loco detection so I can see where my trains are.

Obviously for the future, another major update no doubt.

These blue box

icons for each loco might as well be put anywhere on the grid then and not on the track. (If there is room)

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

When you talked earlier about defining blocks and placing sensors, they are of course the same thing. Blocks will only have meaning in RM if they have a sensor at each end, or a sensor at one end and a buffer stop at the other.

I can't fully agree here Fishy.

Defining blocks is for the user not necessarily RM. For example, we have a track length, train in station signal at exit, sensor here, start of user defined block. Next a length of track runs for

a distance and leads to a set of points, sensor just before points near signal. The user has defined this as a block.

But the user wants to slow the train down before it reaches the signal so adds another sensor part way back in the grid, this sensor

does not divide the first two to make to blocks but acts as a speed reducer or sound for a sound made so the train is ready when it reaches the signal towards the end of the user defined block to stop if necessary. If I really want to spend my money LOL, I

could add another sensor, as many as I like in the block initially set. One may say , if the signal I am coming to is red reduce speed now to 10mph and let train gradually come down to that speed. Half way between the sensor that checked the signal and the

signal I could add another if I really wanted to to say check again. If lights red speed 10mph else 50mph, this would say when I first checked the light was red, I am slowing down gradually so that I can stop at the signal and not over shoot it but now I check

and signal is green so speed can be raised.

The sensors do not create a block, we create the block in out layout planning. Sensors just send information back to RM to process if a program has been set up for that data returned.

I am a little

baffled here also, you say Blocks will only have meaning in RM if they have a sensor at each end, or a sensor at one end and a buffer stop at the other.

You would surly need a sensor as you refer to entering the siding, or probably before it,

at the signal before the point of entering and a sensor just before the buffer stop to stop the loco. You couldn't just have a buffer stop you would need a sensor. Now, it is good to talk and discuss these things, this is where you would need a tag on the

end of the last coach or wagon not just the loco as the carriages or wagons would be reversed in to the sidings and the sensor would pick up from the tag on the end of the last item, to stop it in time, before hitting the buffer stop.

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ_model_trains said:

LOCO DETECTION in RM ermmm

So I put blue loco detection box in a siding but loco is on route else where. That is not loco detection (as I would have expected). I would have thought a loco passes sensor, information

sent to RM, RM processes information and moves loco blue box to show where train is, based on number of sensors in system, loco detection in RM? All this time many people have said, I want loco detection so I can see where my trains are.

Obviously for

the future, another major update no doubt.

These blue box icons for each loco might as well be put anywhere on the grid then and not on the track. (If there is room)

To correct the last statement... These blue box icons for each

loco might as well be put anywhere on the grid then and not on the track.

It appears that they need to be in the layout. The blue box icons need to be placed near the position the loco starts from as instructions what to do and when are programmed

from that point.

[Fishmanoz]

Working backwards PJ, the blue boxes are sensors, not locos or loco tags. In general, RM has no idea what locos you have on the track or where they are except when a sensor reads a loco tag and knows it is passing over that sensor. RM will know which locos

 

you are actually controlling at any time, so assume they are on the layout, but it will only know where they are when they hit a sensor.

 

And by the way, that Hornby Magazine DCC handbook states clearly that the system will read position, speed and

 

direction when a tag is recognised. The speed and direction must be coming from the loco throttle settings, not the LD sensor, as discussed elsewhere.

 

On blocks, of course you will define them, but you won't be able to do much with them unless you

 

have sensors which show when your trains are entering and leaving them. And if you define a block, then put a sensor in the middle of it so you can do more things conditional on reaching that mid-point, then effectively you have 2 blocks.

 

On needing

 

a sensor just in front of a buffer stop, that will be overkill. All you will need to do is stop the loco at the sensor near the point to the siding, then record a program while you manually run the loco into the siding at shunt speed and stop it in front of

 

the buffer. Then you can run that program next time you want to do it. The errors over such a short distance will be minimal. It's only when people use this approach now to program a run over a long distance on the layout that the errors get unacceptably high

 

(this has been discussed many times previously on the forums). And the errors are cumulative if you repeat the action, like repeated loops around a track, stopping st the station each time, you will soon end up nowhere near the station when the program stops

 

the train.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Working backwards PJ, the blue boxes are sensors, not locos or loco tags. In general, RM has no idea what locos you have on the track or where they are except when a sensor reads a loco tag and knows it is passing over that

sensor. RM will know which locos you are actually controlling at any time, so assume they are on the layout, but it will only know where they are when they hit a sensor.

And by the way, that Hornby Magazine DCC handbook states clearly that the system

will read position, speed and direction when a tag is recognised. The speed and direction must be coming from the loco throttle settings, not the LD sensor, as discussed elsewhere.

Hi Fishy

Thanks for confirming the above, going

back a few months I thought the blue diamonds were, one for each loco, picked up at sensors and the blue diamond would move to the sensor that last read the loco passing over it. Loco detection as I visualised it at that time. I can now see the blue diamonds

are to show the sensors them self on the layout so every sensor installed will be shown by it's position on the layout. The new diagonal points in RM layout will improve the look of the layout on screen and make these icons appear in the right locations on

the scheme layout.

I know you mentioned previously it wouldn't be able to check loco speed and have now corrected this. It also stated in the DCC Handbook with Hornby Magazine it would be able to check speed, how, we will wait and see but it is not

really that relevant at this stage, we just know it does it.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

On blocks, of course you will define them, but you won't be able to do much with them unless you have sensors which show when your trains are entering and leaving them. And if you define a block, then put a sensor in the middle

of it so you can do more things conditional on reaching that mid-point, then effectively you have 2 blocks.

I cannot agree with this Fishy, this is why.

My level 1 sensors (as I call them) are the sensors just before points,

at signals, and are linked to the signals. The layout is broken up into blocks/grids/zones call them what we want but in real life railways I believe they are blocks. The block is between two signal controlled areas or points with signals and is slightly larger

than the longest train with carriages or wagons on it. This is a block, a working block and the layout is divided up into them.

If another sensor is added between the block length this does not create two blocks, it is still one block but with an additional

sensor to control other things.

It is no use a train on maximum speed passing over a sensor just before a signal to be told to stop as the stopping distance will take it into another block. so a sensor (level 2 I call them for my use) is placed further

back down the line (between the block sensors) to reduce the speed of the loco if the signal ahead is on red, a red light being that the next block is occupied.

NOTE:
Level 1 sensors control blocks, signals and points leaving one block to

enter the next.
Level 2 sensors are sensors between the ones defining the set train length blocks previously mentioned, and are additions to control speed and sounds.

This terminology is defining priorities and blocks and is for my personal use.

I am aware that a sensor is a sensor where ever it is put but, not always defining a block, using the technique above I am firstly creating working blocks that control trains, points and signals, plus previous signals. I am controlling a live block and

red signalling the entry into a previous block which in turn controls loco position to prevent crashing. (I am not discussing yellow lights here at this stage) Then adding loco speed control within a block to ensure adequate stopping distance should a train

come to a red light. This approach is for automated control,l not mouse, touch screen and not voice controlled.

[Fishmanoz]

No problem PJ. It's your layout and blocks are what you say they are and works for you.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

No problem PJ. It's your layout and blocks are what you say they are and works for you.

Hi Fishy

It shouldn't matter whose layout it is. Blocks are sections of track between signals and points slightly

longer than the longest rake. Above these would be exceptional length/loads.

The difference of oppinion we may have on this is, when an additional sensor is placed between the two block markers/sensors. As you say it could be viewed as two blocks but

then a loco would be across the two blocks and complications in program would start. This should be avoided but if you stick with just your block end sensors at points/signals, runs to station and the like, the trains will over shoot the red signal as they

could be doing 50,60,70mph. Hence the reason for the additional sensor mid way to reduce speed if the signal is red so that when it reaches the signal it can stop in time. That would be all this mid way sensor will probably do, except may be the odd hoot or

toot, it is nothing to do with block control.

Talking of two blocks is easy so long as the blocks are long enough for the largest train and carriages. The complication would come when you alter a signal from green to yellow as the train passes it (leaving

the previous block end signal at red so another train cannot enter it) But when the train is fully in the next block the signals goes from yellow to red and the previous block signal changes to green.

When we get to programming these simple blocks and

blocks in front and behind then we startto consider branching off to another line and joining their blocks. ;-)

That is why we must (in my mind) define the sensor blocks that control signals, points and blocks carefully and when we add intermediate

ones to control speed and slowing down not get them mixed up with the 'controlling blocks'.

These options are based on signals changing automatically when a train is picked up on the sensors. Ponts would also change automatically based on the route

of the next train. If you control trains and signals manually none of this is a problem. I prefer to call it a challenge ;-)

[PJ_model_trains]

I keep looking at loco detection, and running my trains whilst looking for the ways it will work and any problems that may have to be overcome.

 

Page 91/92 of the PDF Manual states:

When available, Loco Detection will allow RailMaster to know

 

where each loco is on your track and to take action accordingly. This allows locos to stop at the correct position each time at stations and to set signals automatically when a loco passes a point.

 

To know where each loco is on the track, the tag

 

under the train must be programmed into RM for it to identify it. The current version of RM has many loco detection commands in it, set points, speed, etc, etc but I cannot see where a train could be set up, so can only assume this will be in the new software

 

version.

 

If the position of the train is identified by the tags passing over a sensor that confirms control of a loco in RM Pro but, I still have a concern.

 

A sensor detects a train and tells RM a train has passed over it, it may say for example

 

something like, reduce loco speed 10mph, change signal red, switch right point. If this is programmed for the sensor every train passing over it gets the same instruction. Change signal red may be fine, change speed to 10 mph may not be required for the next

 

train, change points may be totally wrong sending a second train on a wrong route.

 

Hornby, can you reply to this post and confirm the situation for us? The manual says... Loco Detection will allow RailMaster to know where each loco is on your track.

 

So I assume that RM will know which loco has passed over the sensor, not just any train has passed over it. Can we program a sensor to say Reduce loco speed to 10 mph loco 034 or whatever number loco we set. Or is this where the 'For Loco' command comes in

 

For Loco xxx, xxx do this for Loco xxx do that?

 

If loco detection does these things, I will be first in the queue to buy it, OK guys one of the first. If it doesn't I won't buy it.

 

I do hope Hornby can confirm this concern... in RM PRO will

 

a sensor detect which train has passed over a sensor not just any train, and will each sensor be programmable for each specific train?

 

I am excited about Loco Detection but I will not buy it to find it doesn't do what one would expect. Detect each specific

 

train and allow commands to be processed for each specific train.

 

[St1ngr4y]

PJ,

I, too, have many questions like these floating around in my head. For example, suppose you can, either for ANY train, or a SPECIFIC train at a sensor say, "if signal 123 is red, then stop". Lets suppose you can do this and it works fine, the train

 

stops at the signal - what happens next? Do you have to wait for the signal to change then 'manually' restart the train? As I've said before, We'll just have to wait to see what the capabilities of LD are when it is released. I think it's a waste of time pressing

 

Hornby for answers to such questions until it arrives.

Ray

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

We have been watching this thread with interest and the continued speculation regarding the up-coming Loco Detection System.

 

We are unable to give you specific details about how the system will work as the patenting process is still on-going however,

 

the information that is in the public domain from previous postings on this forum, magazine articles and indeed the settings and information available within the RailMaster program should already give you an idea that this will be a sophisticated and useful

 

system, giving a new level of control over the running of trains and switching of points and signals on your layouts.

 

Please wait until the system is made available and then all your detailed questions will be answered. A separate PDF guide will be

 

included with the system and Loco Detection will remain a standard feature within the RailMaster software, i.e. you will only have to purchase the hardware.