Hornby eLink or Hornby Elite ~ DCC control but there is more to consider

[PJ_model_trains]

If I understand correctly the eLink is 1 amp and the Elite controller is 4 amp.

 

I think I read somewhere a reply from Fishy saying, if your board is bigger than 8' x 4' and you want to run more than 3 moving locos you will need the 4amp Elite.

 

Firstly

 

I ask am I correct with that stated above?

 

As my layout is 8' x 4' and is very 'railway' more than 'scenic' and that I have 5 locos now, 7 when I get the Majestic set and will no doubt end up with 10 or more. I expect to be running more than 3 at any

 

time and could have the odd double header I think I need to consider the this.

 

I know DCC, computer control is relatively new but, I really do think Hornby need to think ahead with the following in mind, many of us will require more than 1 amp.

 

As

 

my layout is DCC, computer run, I am situating the eLink under the layout boards. This means all I have is a USB cable linking to the laptop, everything else is 'out of sight' The last think I want is an Elite controller visible on part of the layout, especially

 

as I wouldn't use it so all it is actually doing is providing the 4 amp supply. Hornby please consider this as many people will want 'out of sight' controllers, we don't need them with a laptop, PC or tablet.

 

What is needed is an eLink for 1 amp and

 

an eLink for 4 amp that can be placed under the layout, out of site. The user can then decide which unit they need for their layout.

 

I guess someone may say put the Elite controller under the boards, but with 2.5 loops, 13 sidings, a cross over loop,

 

a reverse loop module on an 8x4 sheet plus decoders and wiring there just isn't room and I guess it could easily get damaged. Thank goodness it is DCC and not DC or there would be a lot more wiring, having said that we wouldn't have the problem with DC we

 

would need the controller.

 

DCC gives us so much more and makes many things so much easier but, the bit that appeals to me is computer control and 'no visible' controllers or other electronic devices for controlling our railway layout.

 

 

[96RAF]

PJ_model_trains said:

If I understand correctly the eLink is 1 amp and the Elite controller is 4 amp.

I think I read somewhere a reply from Fishy saying, if your board is bigger than 8' x 4' and you want to run more than 3 moving locos

you will need the 4amp Elite.

Firstly I ask am I correct with that stated above?

As my layout is 8' x 4' and is very 'railway' more than 'scenic' and that I have 5 locos now, 7 when I get the Majestic set and will no doubt end up with 10 or more.

I expect to be running more than 3 at any time and could have the odd double header I think I need to consider the this.

I know DCC, computer control is relatively new but, I really do think Hornby need to think ahead with the following in mind, many

of us will require more than 1 amp.

As my layout is DCC, computer run, I am situating the eLink under the layout boards. This means all I have is a USB cable linking to the laptop, everything else is 'out of sight' The last think I want is an Elite

controller visible on part of the layout, especially as I wouldn't use it so all it is actually doing is providing the 4 amp supply. Hornby please consider this as many people will want 'out of sight' controllers, we don't need them with a laptop, PC or tablet.

What

is needed is an eLink for 1 amp and an eLink for 4 amp that can be placed under the layout, out of site. The user can then decide which unit they need for their layout.

I guess someone may say put the Elite controller under the boards, but with 2.5

loops, 13 sidings, a cross over loop, a reverse loop module on an 8x4 sheet plus decoders and wiring there just isn't room and I guess it could easily get damaged. Thank goodness it is DCC and not DC or there would be a lot more wiring, having said that we

wouldn't have the problem with DC we would need the controller.

DCC gives us so much more and makes many things so much easier but, the bit that appeals to me is computer control and 'no visible' controllers or other electronic devices for controlling

our railway layout.

4 Amp power supply unit is available separately as code P9300 in the Hornby shop at just over £37. No doubt you could e-source it cheaper.

[PJ_model_trains]

RAFHAAA96th said:

4 Amp power supply unit is available separately as code P9300 in the Hornby shop at just over £37. No doubt you could e-source it cheaper.

Digital 15V 4 Amp Transformer - P9300.

Does this just replace

the existing one and plug direct into the eLink?

[Fishmanoz]

Very short answer is yes. And so no, I didn't say anything about needing Elite on larger layouts.

 

The capability of Elite and eLink, barring the Elite knobs and switches, are exactly the same. And both can be powered with either the 1 or 4 amp

 

supplies, just that Elite comes with the 4 and eLink with the 1 on first purchase.

 

A standard modern loco draws up to 300mA so, with the 1 amp supply, you can only run 3 of them at the same time, and then you only have 100mA left over for accessories

 

too. And remember, actually running, not just sitting on the track drawing 3/5s of the proverbial. Then older locos with X04 open frame motors draw more. So pretty much as soon as you go beyond your Majestic set, you will need the 4amp.

 

And no, you

 

cannot run 1amp and 4 amp together as you can use only one controller on a layout. And you can't put an even bigger supply on it as it is designed with 4 amp as the max.

[Graskie]

I have my Elite set up at an angle for easy reading and operation slung under one side of my layout. I made the wooden frame up myself and am very pleased with it.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Very short answer is yes. And so no, I didn't say anything about needing Elite on larger layouts.

The capability of Elite and eLink, barring the Elite knobs and switches, are exactly the same. And both can be powered

with either the 1 or 4 amp supplies, just that Elite comes with the 4 and eLink with the 1 on first purchase.

A standard modern loco draws up to 300mA so, with the 1 amp supply, you can only run 3 of them at the same time, and then you only have 100mA

left over for accessories too. And remember, actually running, not just sitting on the track drawing 3/5s of the proverbial. Then older locos with X04 open frame motors draw more. So pretty much as soon as you go beyond your Majestic set, you will need the

4amp.

And no, you cannot run 1amp and 4 amp together as you can use only one controller on a layout. And you can't put an even bigger supply on it as it is designed with 4 amp as the max.

Thanks Fishy. Great news. I will get the P9300

ASAP

I finished all the DCC Bus and dropper connects this morning including the two isolated sections and the RLM. Oh dear, or word similar, short circuit. Called my wife and she up ended the board again. Checked all the wiring, round and round my head

went LOL. Situation made worse by having the cross over loop but with 8 sidings in one of the isolated areas and 5 in the main DCC Bus. Round and round the old head went until I found it just one set of wires wrong way round!

Sorted put board correct

way up and got locos out. One by one checked with new DCC ID codes and they all work. ;-)

Brilliant, I have three locos running right now and a small trial shunting all working. I am a happy chappy.

Couple of areas where track needs adjusting

and a set of points but for first run with so much layed and programmed and am 'well chuffed'

I can now have a rest and play before the board is turned over again to start on 21 point motors and hopefully decoders.

I will purchase the 4amp transformer,

although Hornby don't have them I have found some. I will probably be purchasing the DCC Concepts 8-way decoders also as we don't know when the Hornby ones are coming and a few places are out of stock of the decoder mentioned above.

Thanks for your

help.

[PJ_model_trains]

Graskie said:

I have my Elite set up at an angle for easy reading and operation slung under one side of my layout. I made the wooden frame up myself and am very pleased with it.

Sounds comfortable to me, have you room for a

brew?

[Graskie]

Yes. It has always been a "Room With A Brew."

[Fishmanoz]

Great news PJ, well done!

 

Just remember to use only those DCC Concepts 8 ways which have the extra capacitors across each of the 8 outputs to give you plenty of pulse power to run solenoids reliably.

 

Then I don't believe Hornby point motors

 

have been a problem in this regard, but SEEPs sure have. They draw more current when they fire.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Great news PJ, well done!

Just remember to use only those DCC Concepts 8 ways which have the extra capacitors across each of the 8 outputs to give you plenty of pulse power to run solenoids reliably.

Then I

don't believe Hornby point motors have been a problem in this regard, but SEEPs sure have. They draw more current when they fire.

Thanks Fishy

These are the ones I ordered last night

DCC Concepts DCD-ADS8 Solenoid accessory decoder

(8-way)

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?SID=60673

[PJ_model_trains]

Graskie said:

Yes. It has always been a "Room With A Brew."

I like it LOL.

[Gregd99]

in case it has not been said above.... a loco sitting idle on a track draws a small current. if it is a sound loco then the current is bigger.

 

Practically you need quite a big layout or else multiple operators to be able to run more than 2 or 3

 

locos on a layout. yes you can run locos nose to tail on the same track but you need to adjust throttles to maintain separation. if the routes are not separated from each other and point operations are needed then the situation is more complex.

 

on the

 

other hand.... computer control with loco detection and section allocation and it all works OK! In this case you have to be interested in the control aspect or else you have just made your hobby disappear:-)

[Fishmanoz]

True to a certain extent Greg.

 

But consider an up line and a downline and 2 shunters operating in 2 yards,then try throwing some points at the same time, and see whether 1amp will hack it. The problem is that you don't have to get very complicated

 

before 4 amps are needed to give you sufficient "headroom" for reliable operation. And the investment is modest.

 

I can understand Hornby putting the 1amp in sets as it works fine while only the set is being used. Then the device of putting it with

 

eLink gets people into computer control at an attractive price. But computer control really only comes into its own when you have extended things to a more complicated level. So I think anyone who buys eLink and then sticks with it is going to need 4amps sooner

 

rather than later.

[Gregd99]

Fishmanoz said:

True to a certain extent Greg.

But consider an up line and a downline and 2 shunters operating in 2 yards,then try throwing some points at the same time, and see whether 1amp will hack it.

Well I would

call an up line, a down line and two active shunting yards a pretty big layout. I guess "pretty big" is very subjective.

out of interest do you or anyone else out there have any experience of when the 1A supply actually runs out of puff? assuming modern

(motor) locos and hornby accessory controllers can you run 2 main line locos, two shunters and throw points on the 1A supply? Guessing 200mA per mainline, 100mA per shunter and 100mA per CDU built-in to the hornby accessory decoders.... I would guess yes with

minimal headroom but don't have that set up to validate.

(having said all that... i use a 4A supply and a separate supply for point control)

[Augustus Caesar]

It's just as well I read this thread... I had forgotten to take into account the 1 and 4 amp issues with the Elite, which I have had for some time, and the eLink (new purchase with the prospect of using it rather than the Elite).

 

So I need the power

 

supply to go with the eLink to take it up to 4 amps.

 

One thing a few folk on here may NOT realise is that you do not have to purchase the Hornby mains adaptor to do this... ANY AC adaptor that runs at 15V and has the capacity for 4 amps will do and

 

the ONLY other things to check are the adaptor jack for fitting the eLink socket and the fact that the centre connection of the jack is the positive and the outer metal connection is negative. A diagram on virtually all adaptors will tell you which is which.

 

So, even a universal laptop charger that has an output of 15V and has a 4 amp rating will suffice. these usually come with the different sized jack plugs to fit most socket types.

 

Most of these adaptors are already double insulated for safety too (you

 

note that by the double square icon on the adaptor label). If £37, as quoted above, is too much for some then consider the alternatives which can be obtained for as little as £15. I tend not to go for the cheaper £10 versions as these burn out too easily.

 

I fix laptops just in case you are wondering why I purchase more than one!

 

I'm off now to find a suitable adaptor for my needs... I've also made a note to tell myself to remember these things in future and not create unnecessary expense. Like I'll remember

 

that... lol

[man4805star]

Same here i had an old laptop charger i am using from a old Toshiba

[Fishmanoz]

Gregd99 said:

assuming modern (motor) locos and hornby accessory controllers can you run 2 main line locos, two shunters and throw points on the 1A supply? Guessing 200mA per mainline, 100mA per shunter and 100mA per CDU built-in to the

hornby accessory decoders....

Greg, the commonly accepted load for a modern loco is 300mA, although that is going to vary up or down depending on speed and load it is operating under. That probably explains why the 8249 decoder operates at 500mA,

being normal load plus a margin for stall current. So in my hypothetical, the 4 locos have already exceeded the safe current from the 1amp without any allowance for accessories having been made. Even the 3 loco published limit for the 1amp means only one accessory

decoder can operate before the limit is reached.

Further evidence can be seen in the forums where a number have reported unreliable accessory decoder operation with Select and 1amp that has been fixed by going to 4amp.

So again, the 1amp is

adequate for a 2 loco train set, but not much more in practice.

[RDS]

@Fishmanoz

I can't help but think that it is maybe time for Hornby to start to market the Select and eLink without the Power Supply and let the customer decide whether to go for the 1 or 4 Amp version.

In reality, there cannot be too much difference

 

between the manufacturing cost of one over the other and I know which I would go for.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Gregd99 said:

assuming modern (motor) locos and hornby accessory controllers can you run 2 main line locos, two shunters and throw points on the 1A supply? Guessing 200mA per mainline, 100mA per shunter and 100mA per

CDU built-in to the hornby accessory decoders....
Greg, the commonly accepted load for a modern loco is 300mA, although that is going to vary up or down depending on speed and load it is operating under. That probably explains why the 8249 decoder operates

at 500mA, being normal load plus a margin for stall current. So in my hypothetical, the 4 locos have already exceeded the safe current from the 1amp without any allowance for accessories having been made. Even the 3 loco published limit for the 1amp means

only one accessory decoder can operate before the limit is reached.

Further evidence can be seen in the forums where a number have reported unreliable accessory decoder operation with Select and 1amp that has been fixed by going to 4amp.

So

again, the 1amp is adequate for a 2 loco train set, but not much more in practice.

The Hornby NEW Majestic set includes two loco and 3 sets of points, I would bet they include the 1amp transformer with the set due for launch, early December.

(I will confirm this when it arrives unless Hornby can confirm now.) My guess is, if they include a 1amp in the set they are probably setting the level they feel safe with for the 1amp tranformer. (2 locos 3 points)

I couldn't wait and purchased the

elink with tranformer and RailMaster already I found I
needed to look ahead and consider the 4amp, I knew I could use a suitable laptop transformer but instead pick a second hand 4amp one up from ebay, you can get them for £20-£25.

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, no ambiguity about its being 1amp at all. See set detail at https://www.hornby.com/shop/2013-range/train-sets/r1172-the-e-link-majestic-control/

 

The two locos in the set can be assumed to draw 600mA between them, and one 8247 decoder drawing

 

100mA on recharge will handle the 3 points. That leaves you with 300mA to run one more loco.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

PJ, no ambiguity about its being 1amp at all. See set detail at https://www.hornby.com/shop/2013-range/train-sets/r1172-the-e-link-majestic-control/

The two locos in the set can be assumed to draw 600mA between them,

and one 8247 decoder drawing 100mA on recharge will handle the 3 points. That leaves you with 300mA to run one more loco.

This makes THE MAJESTIC a very good set for anyone wanting to start with DCC computer controlled model railway.

[yamspan]

PJ_model_trains said:

Thanks Fishy. Great news. I will get the P9300 ASAP

I finished all the DCC Bus and dropper connects this morning including the two isolated sections and the RLM. Oh dear, or word similar, short circuit. Called

my wife and she up ended the board again. Checked all the wiring, round and round my head went LOL. Situation made worse by having the cross over loop but with 8 sidings in one of the isolated areas and 5 in the main DCC Bus. Round and round the old head went

until I found it just one set of wires wrong way round!

Sorted put board correct way up and got locos out. One by one checked with new DCC ID codes and they all work. ;-)

Brilliant, I have three locos running right now and a small trial shunting

all working. I am a happy chappy.

Couple of areas where track needs adjusting and a set of points but for first run with so much layed and programmed and am 'well chuffed'

I can now have a rest and play before the board is turned over again to

start on 21 point motors and hopefully decoders.

I will purchase the 4amp transformer, although Hornby don't have them I have found some. I will probably be purchasing the DCC Concepts 8-way decoders also as we don't know when the Hornby ones are coming

and a few places are out of stock of the decoder mentioned above.

Thanks for your help.

[yamspan]

how did the e,link get on with the DCC Concepts DCD-ADS8 Solenoid accessory decoder ?

[Fishmanoz]

Yamspan, take a look on the thread with ADS8 in the title, not sure if in here or the RM forum, and you'll find someone who did it without any problem using the DCC Concepts simple program/run instructions.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

Yamspan, take a look on the thread with ADS8 in the title, not sure if in here or the RM forum, and you'll find someone who did it without any problem using the DCC Concepts simple program/run instructions.

Search

ADS8 as Fishy states above. It is in this forum.