Problem with Reverse Loop Module

[Ian1971]

Hi,

 

I have a problem with the reverse loop module, I have a dog bone reverse loop which works sometimes and othertimes causes a short on the module which won't reset until the train is moved.

 

Both ends of the loop have the required isolating

 

fishplates - and it seems to only occur at the end where the current changes. Yet once clearing the short, it will then work the next time only to fail on the way back through the loop.

 

Any advice and guidance greatly appreciated.

 

Kind Regards,

Ian.

[Ian1971]

And in case it makes a difference to the answer I am running this with a Hornby Elink and Railmaster software.

 

Thank you.

[Flashbang]

Hi

Reading your report, it seems as though the RLM is intermittently working correctly.

You say you have the four insulated rail joiners (IRJs) fitted correctly, two directly opposite each other at each end of the reverse loop.

Now the first

 

question is... Is the length of the loop between entrance IRJs and exit IRJs longer than the longest train to travel over the loop? It is essential the distance is always longer than the longest trains length. If not move the IRJs further out until the loops

 

length is greater.

Second question is... Have you double checked the wiring of the RLM? Its input MUST come from the normally fed rails which are in turn fed from the DCC controller track output. The RLMs output must only connect to the two rails of the

 

loop between the four IRJs. There must not be any other connections made to these rails of the loop, only those from the output of the RLM.

 

If all the above are proved correct then its likely the RLM is defective. If its under warranty return it to

 

the retailer where purchased. Otherwise send it to the Hornby Service Dept for investigation and possible repair.

 

Good luck.

[Ian1971]

Hi,

 

Thank you for the reply. Yes the distance between the two sets of the IRJ's are longer then the longest train has to travel.

 

It is wired as per your description above - interestingly when swapping the wires from the track in to the RLM

 

so A become B and B becomes A the short circuit moves to the other end of the loop.

 

Thus I'm inclined to go with your view that it is faulty.... and thankfully still under warranty, as it was a Christmas purchase for myself :).

 

Thank you.

Ian,

[Flashbang]

Just a send thought....

Some RLMs are relay based and when used with some DCC systems the change-over speed of the relay inside the RLM is beaten by the DCC system seeing the short occur and tripping out faster than the relay can flip the loops rails

 

polarity.

 

Its possible this RLM is a relay based one and AFAIK the eLink has no 'history' as yet of how it works with relay based RLMs.

 

Do you have an Elite or a Select you could temporarily power the layout from? after first disconnecting

 

the eLink feed wires and then test the RLM that way? If it works correctly then you'll need an all electronic RLM with there eLink if your existing RLM is relay based. Of course if it still fails then its the RLM that needs replacing.

[Flashbang]

Oh darn

First line should be... Just a second thought!

[Ian1971]

Hi,

 

No I don't have either, the elink is my first foray in to DCC - I wanted something relatively simple (or so I thought :) ) to use - but the reason for buying the Hornby RLM was I expected it to work with the elink .

 

Still wouldn't be

 

any fun if it as easy

 

Thanks

[Fishmanoz]

Suggest you email RM Support from within the Help window of RM. You are the second person to report an RLM problem with eLink in the last week so it may be an eLink problem with the RLM. So letting them know could fix it for both of you.

 

That said,

 

what you have reported above tends to indicate that the RLM is switching ok in one direction but not the other. Still may be an eLink thing though.

[MatthewCarty]

I have had a problem and having talked to Hornby, it turns out that the RLM is only reliable with Elink and Railmaster if you are using the 4a transformer

[Padders]

Fishmanoz said:

Suggest you email RM Support from within the Help window of RM. You are the second person to report an RLM problem with eLink in the last week so it may be an eLink problem with the RLM. So letting them know could fix it for

both of you.

That said, what you have reported above tends to indicate that the RLM is switching ok in one direction but not the other. Still may be an eLink thing though.

[Padders]

Just installed RLM and have exactly the same problem. Tried with 2 different RLM's with exactly the same results. I think it's a timing issue i.e. short circuit detection is faster than the RLM response time.

[Padders]

Hi Ian

 

Did you manage to reslove this issue?

 

Ian1971 said:

 

Hi,

 

I have a problem with the reverse loop module, I have a dog bone reverse loop which works sometimes and othertimes causes a short on the module which won't

 

reset until the train is moved.

 

Both ends of the loop have the required isolating fishplates - and it seems to only occur at the end where the current changes. Yet once clearing the short, it will then work the next time only to fail on the way back

 

through the loop.

 

Any advice and guidance greatly appreciated.

 

Kind Regards,

Ian.

[Fishmanoz]

Given the Matthew Carty post immediately above your empty reply to me on page 1, suggest you email RM Support from within the Help window of RM and ask their advice.

[96RAF]

MatthewCarty said:

I have had a problem and having talked to Hornby, it turns out that the RLM is only reliable with Elink and Railmaster if you are using the 4a transformer

Interesting that many separate problems are being resolved

by using the 4A supply. There is no logical reason for this other than the old adage 'you can't have too much horsepower'

[Padders]

Did that and got a similar response:

 

"I would recommend using our 4amp transformer, https://www.hornby.com/shop/power-and-control/p9300-digital-15v-4-amp-transformer/ as I am confident that this will resolve the issue you are experiencing."

 

Just

 

purchased a Toshiba laptop 15v DC 5A regulated supply for £10, tested and working but yet to try it on the layout. Watch this space.....

 

Yours Sincerely

Fishmanoz said:

 

Given the Matthew Carty post immediately above your empty reply to

 

me on page 1, suggest you email RM Support from within the Help window of RM and ask their advice.

[Padders]

That fixed it

Padders said:

 

Did that and got a similar response:

 

"I would recommend using our 4amp transformer, https://www.hornby.com/shop/power-and-control/p9300-digital-15v-4-amp-transformer/ as I am confident that this will resolve

 

the issue you are experiencing."

 

Just purchased a Toshiba laptop 15v DC 5A regulated supply for £10, tested and working but yet to try it on the layout. Watch this space.....

 

Yours SincerelyFishmanoz said:

 

Given the Matthew Carty post

 

immediately above your empty reply to me on page 1, suggest you email RM Support from within the Help window of RM and ask their advice.

[geochoice]

MatthewCarty said:

I have had a problem and having talked to Hornby, it turns out that the RLM is only reliable with Elink and Railmaster if you are using the 4a transformer

Interestingly I have experienced exactly the same

symptoms and it has been suggested that Hornby's fix to upgrade to 4 amp transformer which arrived today and I will try tomorrow, poor answer or is it market ploy to squeeze another £36 out of you?

[Fishmanoz]

I don't believe that Hornby has anything to answer for in this regard except ....... now that this is known, a warning should come with the RLM pre-sale to the effect that when operated via eLink, a 4 Amp supply is needed.

[idlemarvel]

I have the Hornby RLM with Hornby 4A transformer and I sometimes get an error on my Elite BUT when this happens it is usually the first time the isolated section is entered after power-up. Once it has "warmed up" there isn't a problem. So my advice would

 

be try it a few times before you conclude there is a more underlying problem. I have a 1A Hornby transformer as well which I use with Elink to drive the points and signals, I haven't tried the 1A on the track to see if it makes any difference, I'll have a

 

go later today.

[idlemarvel]

idlemarvel said:

I have a 1A Hornby transformer as well which I use with Elink to drive the points and signals, I haven't tried the 1A on the track to see if it makes any difference, I'll have a go later today.

I tried the

1A 5 times from startup and didn't get any problems with RLM. Same for 4A. As I said I do get the occasional problem even with Hornby 4A but so occasional as to not be a problem.

[geochoice]

Fishmanoz said:

I don't believe that Hornby has anything to answer for in this regard except ....... now that this is known, a warning should come with the RLM pre-sale to the effect that when operated via eLink, a 4 Amp supply is needed.

Exactly

I could not agree more, perhaps Hornby should offer a discounted 4amp supply to those who have just shelled out for the elink + RM only to find that 4amp supply cures the RLM issue, it has with mine, would not run at all with 1amp but 1st time with 4amp. Will

be writing to Customer Service and looking for some reimbursement.

[idlemarvel]

idlemarvel said:

I tried the 1A 5 times from startup and didn't get any problems with RLM. Same for 4A. As I said I do get the occasional problem even with Hornby 4A but so occasional as to not be a problem.

I should have made

clear these tests were with the Elite as the DCC controller. With eLink and 1A transformer I get frequent errors.

[geochoice]

idlemarvel said:

I should have made clear these tests were with the Elite as the DCC controller. With eLink and 1A transformer I get frequent errors.

Seems the problem is with elink not elite, I have elink at 4amp transformer

appears so far cured issues with RLM

[RDS]

geochoice said:

... just shelled out for the elink + ..... Will be writing to Customer Service and looking for some reimbursement.

Reimbursement - unbelieveable!
e-link (including RailMaster) costs very little more than

we paid for RailMaster separately.

[96RAF]

RMCS has stated that they run an extensive RM layout on a 1A wall-wart without problems, but time and again the forum has reported unrelated problems in RM have been cured by use of a 4A PSU. There is little logic behind why this should be, but it obviously

 

works.

I use separate 4A supplies on both my Elite and eLink with RM and have no real problems but experimenting with the 1A supply on the eLink gave me several program errors where commands were skipped..

Outwith my bailiwick to explain why...