Clun Castle

[p_jones]

I have just taken my Clun Castle out of storage to try out on my new layout I have been building over the last 18 months. As I placed on the track it gave out a short whistle but when tried to run, nothing happened. I have stripped down and cleaned all wheel contacts but still no joy. It is fitted with LokSound V4.0 decoder. Any ideas?

[Graskie]

Hi p_jones and welcome to the forum. That sort of thing can happen at times. Try reprogramming it first on a programming track if you can. What sort of control are you using and what DCC ID is your Clun Castle set to? I have that loco myself and between us, or even with the help of my betters, we should be able to solve this for you. It could well be that it's not an electrical contact issue from what you have said.

[2e0dtoeric]

If nothing at all happens, check that you really have got the track connected to the controller, and the controller to the power suply, which is plugged in to a mains socket that is switched on!

 

Have you got another DCC loco, sound or not, to check if the track really is live?

 

If all the sounds play, but it won't move, it possibly needs a drop of lubricant on the motor bearings, gears, and/or axles and motion after a long storage.

 

Having done that, with the top off, gently turn the motor gear, if you can, and see if it is stuck, if it turns, put the chassis on the track, and give it a few revs, and maybe give the motor a nudge to give it the 'idea', and get it running, before putting the top back on.

 

If the Castle is still 'dead', try a non-sound chip in the socket, to test whether you have fried the sound one.

 

 

 

This should really be in the DCC threads, for a better response.

[2e0dtoeric]

Graskie beat me by thirty seconds!

[Graskie]

That's quick for me nowadays, toaderic. You should have seen me when I was younger. Let's hope we can solve the problem between us and possibly others who wish to climb on the bandwagon.

[p_jones]

Power is on, programming track is live and other loco's operate ok. Controller is ZTC 511. Tried re-programming but to no avail. Think I might have fried decoder. Will try to turn motor by hand as last chance. At £124 for new decoder, expensive mistake.

[macman44]

I too have Clun Castle, and it is giving similar appearance of a dead decoder.  It worked for a short while (3 outings, probably no more than 1 hour of lifetime running), then all of a sudden (while stationary of the track - Digitrax DB150 DCC) the sound stopped, and now I can't get anything to happen.  No sound, no movement, won't run on DC, can't read or program any CVs on the programming track, can't reset factory defaults with CV8 - all trackside faciliies working OK with other locos.  Visual appearance of the innards is like new - no signs of electrical oo-nasties.  Electrical continuity from the wheel pickups and the motor to the decoder connector is good.

So I would appreciate any thoughts on:

-  Are there any other tests or investigations I can try that haven't been mentioned in this thread?

-  Is this decoder/loco particularly sensitive to damage, especially on non-Hornby DCC?  Have there been more reports of failure?

-   Are there any DCC system precautions I should be taking to prevent this happening in the future?

-  To try a non-sound decoder looks like I need to find one with a 21-pin plug.  I assume the Hornby Sapphire will just drop in, but I don't have one and as I live in Canada they aren't exactly thick on the ground over here.  So are there any other decoders that will fit, or is it possible to get any kind of adaptor that will allow 8-pin plug or wire-ended, etc., decoders to be tried?

-  ESU warranty their standard decoders for 2 years, and mine is a little less than 2 years old.  But they require their decoders installed in locos to be returned to the loco manufacturer.  What is the Hornby warranty for the OEM Loksound decoder installed in Clun Castle?

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks,    Paul.

[Fishmanoz]

Putting it on the track shouldn't fry the decoder. Unfortunately, if the motor is frozen, you may have overloaded the decoder trying to run it. 

 

Easy to tell - there will be 4 cubic black components near the wiring end being the diodes for the bridge rectifier. If one or two of them have a charred area on them, chances are it's fried.  Otherwise, it will be something else.  Voice of experience here, fortunately not with a sound decoder, but the principal is the same.

[37lover]

Putting it on the track shouldn't fry the decoder. Unfortunately, if the motor is frozen, you may have overloaded the decoder trying to run it. 

 

Easy to tell - there will be 4 cubic black components near the wiring end being the diodes for the bridge rectifier. If one or two of them have a charred area on them, chances are it's fried.  Otherwise, it will be something else.  Voice of experience here, fortunately not with a sound decoder, but the principal is the same.

Fishmanoz,

I think I know what a bridge rectifier looks like and diodes but could you please explain what you mean by cubic? Is this the physical layout as per four sides of a square?

[walkingthedog]

Cubic as in cube. Square block. 

[Fishmanoz]

6 sides, all square. I was using licence though, all 6 sides will actually be rectangular. 

[Bulver]

I had a similar problem with City of Coventry', loco suddenly stopped working, with no sound whatsoever.  There was a distinct odour of frying electrics when I removed the tender body. Rang Hornby, who advised me to return it to Margate, but due to it being out of warranty, there would be a charge.  In the event, they replaced immediately, at no cost even though loco was over 12 mths old.

[walkingthedog]

Hornby are exceptionally good when it comes to repairs and customer service even out of warranty. Unfortunately with their problems with late delivery this Christmas many people have forgotten about the good service they provide. I for one haven't. 

[poliss]

I always turn the power off at the mains before putting a loco on the track. (Always being if I remember to turn the power off that is.)

[macman44]

I can see the 4 items that Fishmanoz (aka Douglas Adams?) refers to, and they are utterly pristine - as new.  So it doesn't seem to be that.

The motor rotates freely enough, and has a d.c. reistance of about 60 ohms, which seems reasonable.  But it's very difficult to get at the connections to apply 12 volts to see if it runs (putting a VOM on those tiny pins is one thing, but trying 12 v. would be another entirely!).

 

Actually, it was on the track already, and had run but was stationary, making all those lovely steam noises.  Then the sound just stopped abruptly, and everything has been totally dead since.  There wasn't even another loco on the track at the time!  Of course, I'm not ruling out a DCC Controller fault, but another loco ran just fine shortly afterwards.  Very mystifying.

 

Goes back to the warranty thing, but Hornby don't seem to have any warranty info on their web site.

[choralc]

Or is the Fishman really John Brimer? Who cares. I think he has had some of the clearest answers on the forum or at least cluey enough to provide easy to follow fault finding procedures.

[Fishmanoz]

The cad, that Brimer character seems to have pinched my name for his Twitter account!!!

 

No, it's not me but thanks for alerting me CS, and for the compliments. 

[macman44]

Thanks to magfan for his comments.

I was particularly interested in the mention of Decoder Lock, something I wasn't aware of.  If the decoder has become locked, will it resist programming of all CVs, even the reset by writing 8 to CV8?  And could it explain why the decoder seems to do nothing at all?

I don't know anybody who has NCE DCC, but is it possible to unlock the decoder by writing 0 to both CV15 and CV16 with a different DCC, say Digitrax - even when it is unresponsive to all other read/write attempts?

As my layout is still in cardboard boxes (this house move has a lot to answer for!), I can only try Clun Castle out on the Digitrax system at my local Railway Club.  I will try Decoder (un)lock ASAP.

[Fishmanoz]

Just checked the Loksound 4 manual magfan and it doesn't show CVs 15/16 as being supported. Can you explain further?

[Fishmanoz]

That's my problem, looked in the Loksound 4 manual and no 15 or 16 in the CV list.  What section are you referring to?

[macman44]

I have the LokSound V4.0 Instruction Manual, 4th Edition (from firmware 4.6) dated May 2012, and CV15/16 are in the supported CV list (page 78).  Furthermore, CV124 (Extended Configuration #2) has a bit to enable/disable decoder lock with CV15/16, with the default being disabled.

So it looks like my decoder does supprt decoder lock, and the symptoms seem to be somewhat consistent with the decoder having become locked (I think).  How it got there is still a mystery.  And why I can't select the loco and run it is also obscure.

But assuming that I can unlock it with the Digitrax system I have access to, there is yet hope.  Could magfan please confirm that this might be possible, and what the procedure might be?  It appears that only CV15 can be written to (and, I assume, read) unless CV15 and CV16 are equal.  The Digitrax article on decoder lock also states that a Digitrax decoder that is locked cannot be reset by writing 8 to CV8, so it's possible that LokSound is the same - which is what I found when I tried it.

[macman44]

Just to close on this.

I contacted Hornby, and they felt that it was probably the decoder.  They sent me a new one which I installed, and now Clun Castle is steaming again.  Kudos to Hornby for their great help.

I still don't know why the original decoder died (or even whether it got locked up), but will be taking as many wiring precautions as I can on my power busses to try and reduce voltage transients and ringing of the DCC signal to a minimum.  Don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt.