Scale speeds of our DCC 00 gauge trains

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi

 

If we purchase our model trains, designed to scale, designed to run at scale speeds, shouldnt they all run at the same speed on the track?

 

If I run my TTS CoN at 50mph and run my Royal Signals at the same speed they would run into each other and crash. I have to drop the Patriot down to around 40mph as it runs much faster yet both were set to run at 50mph?

 

Should we therefore be adjusting them so they run at the same speeds?

 

PJ

[RDS]

Hi PJ

There is a check that you can do by timing your trains over a set distance to calculate the actual scale speed and you may find it interesting to see if either of the two, is running at the correct speed you have set.  But yes, you are right, if both are set to 50mph, they should actually run at the same speed, or you need to adjust them accordingly.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi PJ

There is a check that you can do by timing your trains over a set distance to calculate the actual scale speed and you may find it interesting to see if either of the two, is running at the correct speed you have set.  But yes, you are right, if both are set to 50mph, they should actually run at the same speed, or you need to adjust them accordingly.

 

Later tonight I will run CoN and DoG then test others.

 

All this getting ready for Loco Detection RDS, did I ever mention loco detection LOL

 

I think it should be software detection cos I know where my loco's are ;o)

 

PJ

[96RAF]

Or even PJ detection so we know where you are.

[PJ_model_trains]

Or even PJ detection so we know where you are.

No need for that RAF, I am here like a bad penny, surprised some of you have not sent me off for a bucket of steam.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi

 

If we purchase our model trains, designed to scale, designed to run at scale speeds, shouldnt they all run at the same speed on the track?

 

If I run my TTS CoN at 50mph and run my Royal Signals at the same speed they would run into each other and crash. I have to drop the Patriot down to around 40mph as it runs much faster yet both were set to run at 50mph?

 

Should we therefore be adjusting them so they run at the same speeds?

 

PJ

i will assume you are refering to some display on railmaster, so first off is there any settings you can adjust so the patriot can show ,say for arguements sake 60 mph then turn down the patriot to say 50 mph ? .

can you read me the valu of cv 5 on the patriot ,

 

 

Hi magfan

 

I will be in the engine shed later tonight so will have a look.

 

What I was referring to was two trains on the same track where RM says both are doing 50mph but one is running faster than the other.

 

PJ

[96RAF]

I have three 0-4-0s all with the same motor and gearing and they all run at different cruise and shunt speeds, so I had to customise each in RM to get them to equal pace, handy for double and triple heading.

[96RAF]

I have three 0-4-0s all with the same motor and gearing and they all run at different cruise and shunt speeds, so I had to customise each in RM to get them to equal pace, handy for double and triple heading.

then pj needs to know how to this via rm software can you help with this constuctively

PJ says he doesn't do RM so it's down to adjusting speed curve and or top and mid speed CVs manually.

Edit: sorry it was mag fan who doesn't do rm. I got confused by the yellow boxes.

in rm you call up each loco and amend the cruise and shunt speeds so the locos match speed, else you can use rm to amend the appropriate CVs for each loco.

[Graskie]

No need for that RAF, I am here like a bad penny, surprised some of you have not sent me off for a bucket of steam.

 

If ever they do, PP, just make sure you keep a lid on it to stop the steam escaping.

[96RAF]

No need for that RAF, I am here like a bad penny, surprised some of you have not sent me off for a bucket of steam.

 

If ever they do, PP, just make sure you keep a lid on it to stop the steam escaping.

Graskie I think you are confusing your PPs with your PJs. Time for bed said Zebedee....

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi

 

If we purchase our model trains, designed to scale, designed to run at scale speeds, shouldnt they all run at the same speed on the track?

 

If I run my TTS CoN at 50mph and run my Royal Signals at the same speed they would run into each other and crash. I have to drop the Patriot down to around 40mph as it runs much faster yet both were set to run at 50mph?

 

Should we therefore be adjusting them so they run at the same speeds?

 

PJ

i will assume you are refering to some display on railmaster, so first off is there any settings you can adjust so the patriot can show ,say for arguements sake 60 mph then turn down the patriot to say 50 mph ? .

can you read me the valu of cv 5 on the patriot ,

 

 

Hi magfan

 

I will be in the engine shed later tonight so will have a look.

 

What I was referring to was two trains on the same track where RM says both are doing 50mph but one is running faster than the other.

 

PJ

yes i understand what you are reffering to ,I dont use rm so therfore use my controller to run two locos at the same speed ,

where we may have to go is back into the locksound and alter  cv numbers 2,5and 6 to try to alter the driving characteristics of the patriot , i dont thick tts supports this function but i will check.

 

 

Hi guys

 

What have I started here?

 

I think changing the CV's may be necessary and would be grateful for guidance but...

 

First I want to test CoN and DoG TTS trains then Evening Star (no sound) and the Patriot, Royal Signals.

 

Until I test and compare them I don't know, it may be just the Patriot.  I will just stick with steam trains for now.  bare with me it will probably be tomorrow when I have had time and have the results.

 

I think it is an interesting exercise as it is important, I think, that a scale speed is the same with all trains. It will lead to better control with Loco Detection.  ;o)

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi

 

It is quite interesting we are looking at this now and reading what it says in the RM Guide

 

I am not sure which Guide you have I can see it on page 38 to page 40 so wonder if I have a newer version of the guide?

 

7.96Mb --- <strong >Last modified 18 ‎November ‎2014, ‏‎11:03:24

 

Taking the first part on page 38 it states...

Auto ProfilingYou can use the auto profiling function within the Pro Pack to obtain more accurate speed curves as RailMaster will test the loco at every 10mph (16kph) down to 5mph (8kph). This requires the optional Loco Detection system.

 

>>> So to do this correct we need the LD System

 

But lets not be put off, I think, the nearer things are now the easier it will be then. So I think it is wise to check the train speeds now. As I do not have 8x 3rd radius track, for this initial experiment to be somewhere near, I will run two trains on the same track, one behind the other.

 

Subject to my/our findings I may buy the 3rd radius curved track after the New Year and continue testing then.

 

HRMS PLEASE NOTE  It also appears the menu in the guide needs updating as Loco Detection in the content states

 

Loco detection ............ 4, 97, 138   (not page 38-40,  I have not checked the other pages)

 

PJ

[96RAF]

This may/may not be of use but...

In Rocrail you can increment speed and see it reported on a speedo and at the same time it reports the speed step for that speed Being sent by the controller to the decoder. You don't need to draw a track just configure the locos you want to test as well as define your controller.

So by running two locos opposite each other on a calibration loop track you can note their speed steps and write them to the loco speed curve or mid/max V cvs. 

This calibration loop is also handy for fine tuning double header locos.

Decoder Pro allows you to easily adjust a speed curve as well.

Both these are free downloads.

[PJ_model_trains]

This may/may not be of use but...

In Rocrail you can increment speed and see it reported on a speedo and at the same time it reports the speed step for that speed Being sent by the controller to the decoder. You don't need to draw a track just configure the locos you want to test as well as define your controller.

So by running two locos opposite each other on a calibration loop track you can note their speed steps and write them to the loco speed curve or mid/max V cvs. 

This calibration loop is also handy for fine tuning double header locos.

Decoder Pro allows you to easily adjust a speed curve as well.

Both these are free downloads.

Hi RAF

You say both downloads are FREE couple of questions

- do they do 64 bit I am looking but at present only see 32 bit

- when the software is downloaded (not done it yet) how does it connect to my system?

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

You'll find many of your programs are only 32 bit PJ. 32 will work on 64 but not vice versa. 

[PJ_model_trains]

You'll find many of your programs are only 32 bit PJ. 32 will work on 64 but not vice versa. 

Thanks Fishy

 

Just downloaded the 32 bit version of the main program

 

I will come back to the rest of things tomorrow. 

- speed tests

- dapol wagon to dismantle

- rocrail

- keeping the misses happy

The last will be the hardest,

'you think more of your trains than you do of me'

'are you in there with your trains again'

'don't you know it's Christmas time again'

 

Oh sorry that last one was a song  ;o)

 

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

Good to hear you are on song PJ. 

[Graskie]

What I can't really understand, PJ, is why you're so worried about this. If you match each loco's speed as light engines, won't the equation perhaps be different with different loads behind each one? Or are you still expecting them to run at the same speed in those circumstances as well? I may be wrong, but I don't think they would, unless EMF perhaps comes into the matter as well.

[RDS]

At least it has (almost but not quite fully) taken him off LD for a few minutes!

But even so, PJ is right, if they are both set to the same speed, they should run at the same speed.

[Graskie]

 

Regardless of load? I'm afraid I don't like to use cruising and shunting speeds. I have to put them in, of course, because RM demands it, but I am quite happy to just control each loco with its own speed control.

 

I suppose the problem probably arises, though, when programming a schedule or in deference to approaching LD, although I haven't progressed that far yet.

[ModelerXYZ]

I had that problem with 3 diesel shunters. I get so much better control with DC. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Good to hear you are on song PJ. 

Hi Fishy

 

I was going to do the birdie song, tweet, tweet

 

But I don't do social media   ;o)

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

What I can't really understand, PJ, is why you're so worried about this. If you match each loco's speed as light engines, won't the equation perhaps be different with different loads behind each one? Or are you still expecting them to run at the same speed in those circumstances as well? I may be wrong, but I don't think they would, unless EMF perhaps comes into the matter as well.

 

Morning Graskie

 

Scale speed is scale speed to me!  30mph with one train should be 30mph with another (unladen of course)

 

I am looking for consistancy in speed.  Police do not I say, I won't do your car for speeding because it runs different to mine.  Same on the railway, they have speed limits which have to be adhered to.

 

Talking of which, I have just ordered two packs of speed limit signs for my layout. All part of my forward planning ;o)  Watch this space. Well maybe not this space, you know what I mean.   ;o]

 

I will share them when I get them, I guess others may like them also.  They really do look the part!

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

At least it has (almost but not quite fully) taken him off LD for a few minutes!

But even so, PJ is right, if they are both set to the same speed, they should run at the same speed.

Hello RDS

 

Sorry still on the same subject, just didn't use the words Loco Detection. Arrrrrr get me out of here!!!

 

Seriously it i all in preparation for LD. Read page 38 of the RM Guide on Auto Profiling for LD.  I want my speeds looking almost right ready for Aut Profiling (which cannot be done until LD is launched!)

 

Depending which RM Guide you have you may find it on page 36. Search eaither Loco Detection or Auto Profiling.

 

Itwill be interesting when I do my tests, we would expect CoN and DoG both TTS to be the same, but will my Evening Star and Royal Signals. It could be just the last we will see but it will be interesting to test and find out and important, I think, to have speeds that are as near correct as possible at this stage.

 

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

 

Regardless of load? I'm afraid I don't like to use cruising and shunting speeds. I have to put them in, of course, because RM demands it, but I am quite happy to just control each loco with its own speed control.

 

I suppose the problem probably arises, though, when programming a schedule or in deference to approaching LD, although I haven't progressed that far yet.

 

Hello Graskie

 

I am with you on this. I prefer to control my trains. As Ray says, he uses accelerate to in programs the same principle although one is automating the acceleration.

 

What is important, I feel, is that 30mph is 30mph with every train, or what ever speed you are choosing to run at or how you control it to get to that speed.

 

If you have a double header Graskie you would want them the same speed. If you have two trains on one track and set them both the same speed, yoou wouldn't one to gain and run into the back of another.

 

PJ