Hornby Loco will not run from Elite

[RDS]

I realise that this thread could be either a DCC or RailMaster topic but because I want to be able to control the Loco (like all my others) from Elite I have posted it in the DCC section.

I have a layout controlled by RailMaster via Elite to the track

One of my Loco's (a Hornby 2-6-4 LMS running number 2546) has started to only run when controlled from RailMaster.  The only effect my Elite has on it is to stop it very suddenly, when the knob is turned fully anti-clockwise.  Until it reaches this position the knob has no effect whatsoever.  From the Laptop, RailMaster controls it perfectly.

It didn't used to be like this and I am unaware of any changes that may have caused this.  Has anyone any clue as to what has happened?

[poliss]

I'd say that settings have somehow been stored in either the decoder or the Elite. I suggest resetting both.

[96RAF]

Thats odd because RM is using the Elite to pass its commands so you would think all would be well using it directly.

Check RM and the Elite to make sure both are using the same address for the loco, not one using a short and one a long address.

[RDS]

Thats odd because RM is using the Elite to pass its commands so you would think all would be well using it directly.

Check RM and the Elite to make sure both are using the same address for the loco, not one using a short and one a long address.

Thanks, I share your views on it being odd because of Elite being involved in both methods.  It is the only Loco that this happens to because in all other instances, I can start controlling  via RM and take over on Elite or vice versa. (and this is why I have the Elite as my controller)

The DCC address from both Elite and RM is 25 and it is strange that the only thing that Elite will do is stop the Loco dead.

[Fishmanoz]

Certainly sounds weird.  Given all the info about how the loco is set up is stored in the decoder, not either controller, I can't imagine how it can happen.  Unless there is a fault in your Elite, although hard to imagine given your other locos work from it.

 

Have you done resets as poliss mentioned?

[St1ngr4y]

I realise that this thread could be either a DCC or RailMaster topic but because I want to be able to control the Loco (like all my others) from Elite I have posted it in the DCC section.

I have a layout controlled by RailMaster via Elite to the track

One of my Loco's (a Hornby 2-6-4 LMS running number 2546) has started to only run when controlled from RailMaster.  The only effect my Elite has on it is to stop it very suddenly, when the knob is turned fully anti-clockwise.  Until it reaches this position the knob has no effect whatsoever.  From the Laptop, RailMaster controls it perfectly.

It didn't used to be like this and I am unaware of any changes that may have caused this.  Has anyone any clue as to what has happened?

Have you used both knobs of the Elite for this loco and does it do the same with both?

Ray

[96RAF]

Does the Elite behave any differently if you pull the USB cable to RM (i.e the pc) so that it is genuinely stand alone.

[RDS]

Thank you for your suggestions.

@poliss.  No, I have not tried to reset.  The Elite works perfectly with everything else but I will try to reset the decoder.

@Fishmanoz.  See above

@St1ngr4y.  I am not sure if I had tried both knobs.  I have now - no difference.

@RAF96.  I disconnected the USB at the Elite end but the Loco still cannot be controlled at all from my Elite

Update - Incredible!  I was just about to press the 'Reply' button for this post when I thought I would try it again.  It now works perfectly from Elite and RM.  Thanks guys but I do not know what happened -  it has been like this for weeks.

[96RAF]

I would think that pulling the USB has somehow allowed the Elite to get its act together and when replugged it established proper comms to the track both via RM and down its own mind tract.

Regardless of the problem it has gone away for now and if it ever returns just unplug everything, have a cuppa and start again.

[RDS]

I would think that pulling the USB has somehow allowed the Elite to get its act together ...

Not sure about that one because it did not work straight after disconnecting or reconnecting the USB.  After I have done that, I used it on RailMaster for a while, noted that it still didn't work from the Elite but then the next time I tried it did work.  In any case, the PC was not switched on whilst it was disconnected, so it would not even be aware it had been unplugged.

I see what you mean about the problem has gone away but as an engineer, I like to understand why.

[96RAF]

Sometimes engineering has to bow to the great dog compooting, which upon developing an unexpected (or even repeatable) fault reacts to switching it off then on again by working fine for another day or so before throwing a hissy fit.

I am an engineer and find it so frustrating at times when a problem evaporates before a reasonable explanation has been found.

[RDS]

Yesterdays 'fix' was short lived and I knew I wasn't happy that it suddenly worked, without apparently doing anything.

Not working from Elite again today but perfect from RailMaster!

[Rog RJ]

Have you tried resetting the Elite yet? This can cure all sorts of strange behaviours with the Elite and also the Select.

[96RAF]

Reading the whole thread again and noticing it is just the one loco there has to be a problem with that locs decoder settings.

I would suggest you disable DC running and that bemf is set to off for now. They are the 2 prime causes of dodgy loco behaviour, typically runaways though.

[Fishmanoz]

Sounds persuasive Brat, but do you think it can be the case with it working all the time with RM, not working with Elite, then working with Elite, then stopping again?

 

Just one other thing to try - change the loco ID and see what happens.  Remember some addresses can refuse to work for unfathomable reasons, well maybe this is a more exotic one of those.

[96RAF]

@Fishy

I agree. I'm as flumaxed as the rest of you. A one off occurrence re RM vs elite solo I can write off, but recurring events are a definite conundrum.

If all else fails the read the instructions again & again, then give up and go down the pub. Doesn't answer the question but gets you out of the house.

Seriously work through the suggested fixes logically and report back your findings.

[RDS]

Thanks.  I will try the suggestions one at a time:

1) Tonight I have changed the loco id to 3.  This has made no difference, the Loco still works perfectly from RailMaster but not from Elite, apart from (just as before) it stops suddenly when the Elite knob is turned anti-clockwise.

The Loco is R2635X, DCC fitted.  I bought it second hand a couple of years ago but it has worked perfectly on both Elite and RailMaster until recently.  It looks like it was factory fitted DCC because it is stamped on the base as DCC fitted.  

Which decoder will be fitted to this Loco and how can it be reset, which was one of the earlier suggestions and the one I would like try next.

[poliss]

Write 8 to CV8.

[RDS]

Thanks poliss.  Just done that, so Decoder should now be reset.  Unfortunately, No difference, still will not work from Elite.  Disappointing because I had high hopes for that option.  I have turned the RailMaster laptop off for tonight but I will try in the morning just to confirm it still works from RailMaster on id3.

[poliss]

Next thing to do is reset the Elite as per instructions in the manual.

You could also try different cables.

[96RAF]

The X means it was factory fitted.

Some factory fitted locos had the earlier R8215 decoders, later ones would more likely be R8249, both very basis decoders and limited to what CVs you can change.

If the decoder and Elite reset hasn't fettled it and if you are happy dismantling your loco I can only suggest swapping the decoder for another one, or even if you just swap decoders loco to loco for now and see if the snag follows the decoder. That could give a clue as to if it was definitely the decoder or possibly the loco wiring having some sort of odd effect.

[RDS]

It looks as if the decoder will not reset by writing 8 to CV8 (In Direct mode, on a programming track).  I previously thought it had reset but I realised that I had already changed the id to 3 before the attempted reset, so there was no way of knowing if reset had worked.  However, I have since changed the id back to 25 and then tried the reset.  I guess if the reset had worked, the id would now be set to 3 but it's not - still on 25.

I have now taken the body off the Loco.  It is factory fitted as stated previously so I was surprised to see the capacitor still in place across the motor.  I thought they were removed when decoders are fitted.  I have certainly removed them off all the Loco's I have converted to DCC myself.

I am really against resetting my Elite because it works perfectly with everything else.

My next step will be to try a different decoder.  

[96RAF]

Resetting the Elite will not affect anything except any loco names you have saved against a decoder addrees or anything you have saved as a favourite loco, so fear not doing it.

[RDS]

Thanks RAF96 but losing the Loco names is enough to put me off.

I have now installed a different decoder and it works perfectly with the Elite.

I have also tried the 'suspect' decoder in my ESU Decoder tester and although I can program the id with the Elite, it will not operate it.

I am sure that there will be a use for it, that only requires RailMaster operation, so that will it's use from now on.  Just need to think of something ......

[Fishmanoz]

What about in a dummy car for lights?