ColinB

Perhaps I do grumble but I get fed up with Hornby taking us for suckers. It is not a big issue for me I have all the trains I could ever want but anyone new to the hobby would easily get fed up and move on. It is like going into Wetherspoons for a meal, its cheap so you don't expect much, so I doubt very few people complain. It was like in the old days with Skoda cars, when they released the chart every year of customer satisfaction they were always quite well up, although they were not very good cars, when the press questioned this, they got the same answer, most of their customers didn't expect that much for what they paid. Then we come onto Hornby, I will leave it at that. I must admit I only ordered the loco that wants paying for off Hornby because I thought it would come next year, so another 10% price rise and Hornby gave me a 12% discount voucher, normally I deal with TMC or Bure Valley who I have no such issues with. In fact Rails have just mailed a loco I pre ordered about 2 years ago, again no issues with credit card payment, first thing I knew about it was the shipping email.

I know I got that same mail. When I went to pay each time the card company mailed me a secure code to input into the banking app, once it has done this it then returns you to the Hornby site. Initially I thought perhaps there is an issue, with that particular card, so I tried my Banker's card and got the same issue, so nothing to do with either card companies, I suspect that the Hornby end has not implemented some part of the security handshaking mechanism, so yes it is Hornby's fault. I buy tons of stuff "on line" never have this issue, if it keeps happening it is about time someone sorted it out. I sent them an email but seeing as they take about 3 to 7 days to answer, it is probably better to phone up.

Well their system is obviously not working. I did find why I was getting multiple emails, every time it fails to take the payment because of an error at their end, it sends you another email. So I suppose there is some logic to it. Customer Service Monday.

Yes Deem that is the one I use. I found the plate it comes with wouldn't fix behind the worm drive as it was too fat, so I took a 5 pence piece filed down the edges so it fits in the jaws and cut a slot in it. It may be on the motor you buy there might be enough room to use the plate, if not use the 5 pence piece. With this puller the puller has to absolutely square with the worm drive as you pull otherwise the pin in the puller bends.

Sent me a third EMail, so I thought I will pay with my current account instead of the credit card. Still falls over and people wonder why I have such a low opinion of them. Seems like Customer Relations on Monday.

What I meant by the staffing levels is their core team seems very small if the Yesterday program is to be believed. One designer designs the product, so a small company would have the same, possibly Hornby may have behind the scenes people that arrange production, whereas in a small company the designer probably does that. It is not like the company where I worked where we had many designers building individual parts. So probably at the "coal face" they have the same level of support. Interestingly I received the loco today and considering it is a small company it comes with a wealth of data, a rather large user manual and exploded parts diagram. As to the products Hornby support very many of them are models that the core design was done years ago, that is reflected in the fact that a 1980s Britannia body fits the modern chassis, it is just that they have added a bit of detail. It is much easier to start with something than with nothing, so basically, no I don't accept your arguments. I know Hornby prices are what they are, I can still complain and not buy them anymore. I was expecting an answer of the form that the Hornby model was tons better hence the justification for the price not that the price was subsidising all the other products Hornby makes. Incidentally my latest Bachmann class 90 with sound and motor driven pantograph was only marginally more expensive than the new price for a Hornby class 60 with no sound.

I have just had an email from Hornby saying that they can't process a preorder because of the credit card payment. Not only did they tell me once but they sent me two emails both saying the same, good system there. So go into the link to update my credit card, surprised as Rails had just taken payment without an issue. Goes through the whole banking system and then fails at the Hornby end. Now I know people probably think I am a bit critical of Hornby, but really. So I thought I will phone up and pay over the phone, surprise, surprise they only work until 3.00pm on Thursday and Friday. So getting back to the subject has anyone else had issues paying by card?

Sorry I don't think they have. Given Hornby's pricing even on the Percy replacement I suspect that market has virtually disappeared or moved to "Playtrains". I just look at the complexity of the model to work out what it should cost. Given the low number of employees now at Hornby I suspect that their team is not much bigger than the Rapido one. Also seeing how few models Rapido make, the price of their models should be significantly higher than Hornby's. Anyone with an once of production experience knows the more you make the cheaper it gets, go buy one switch from RS and then see the price for 100. The cost of my APT E from Rails is £407 including sound, so take £100 off of that for the sound option, that means the model is £307, compared with over £400 for the corresponding Hornby product. It is the attitude of those two individuals that gives Hornby the impression that the public will pay anything for their models, which generally is not the case.

Easy solution, I am assuming you don't have any lights on the loco, just turn the DCC decoder round. So insert it in the socket the other way round. Alternatively swap over the motor connections. The trouble with changing CV values in this case, 3 months further down the line when you decide to reset the decoder you will have to do the process all over again, which by then you will have forgot.

Amazing response, I have always bought Peco track as it is better and last time I looked cheaper. As for the rest I will let the wider audience to judge.

I have just ordered a APT E by Rapido models from Rails. Can someone explain to me how a smaller company that makes less models than Hornby can supply basically the same model as Hornby (ok, no pantograph and seats) with sound fitted for less than the Hornby offering.

The 5 pole conversion is here :- His method for removing the twin worm drive doesn't work, or it didn't for me. I used a standard model aircraft propeller puller with a ground down 5 pence coin as the part to go behind the worm, it is the only piece of metal I found thin enough and strong enough.

If you are interested I replaced my P2 motor which was a 3 pole, with a Pendolino one which is five pole. I also added pickups to the tender using ones robbed out of an A4 tender. I found the information about the motor off a guy on the web doing a YouTube video and he was right.

If you buy X9084 from Peters Spares or Lendons it does not come with any wires, if you order the latest and greatest X9084/T off New Modellers it comes with leads already attached, it is also a PCB with "plate through holes" and decent PCB tracks. Of course the person who wired it up doesn't make use of the "plated thro holes" just "tacking" on to the PCB rather than taking advantage of the mechanical strength added by soldering to the plated through hole. As to the photo, please why are you bothering. I don't know but I think just a pin description should be adequate. As I said in a previous post for DCC whether the red wire goes to pins 4 or 8 doesn't matter, what does matter is if the corresponding tender pickup wire goes to same pin.

Sorry what are you on about, looking at the photo that is a standard setup for a A3/A4 loco with the decoder in the loco, I have loads of them. I think on all of mine the red wire goes to pin 8. As to the socket, again it looks like all the ones on my locos. As I said in my earlier post you should have two wires from the loco pickups (red and black) and two wires that connect to the tender pickups via the drawbar (both black as red would be more noticeable on the drawbar). Generally the socket is standard although there are several different types depending on how the socket fits into the mounting posts. That is the right socket for that loco. Generally you have to worry about two things, the individual socket posts touching the chassis on the underside when screwed down, or whether you can screw the body on properly because the socket pushes the DCC plug too high.

Well then you are very lucky, I have been chasing various bodies for ages. Then there is usually the issue that in some cases what you see is not always what you get. Some EBay photos don't always show everything. I wanted a chassis for my Mazak rotted chassis on a Princess. The only chassis available at the time came with a body, I bid on it and won it only to find out it was a Princess body on top of an A4 chassis, it fitted so well, it was difficult in the photos to see the difference. Sure I could have moaned at EBay and sent it back, usually to the Seller either telling me they were selling it for a friend or didn't know. So generally if I can repair the old one with new parts I will.

Ok, I think everyone is giving you the wrong answers. Looking at your loco you will have a red and black wire going to the pickups, so you should see these two wires disappear somewhere into chassis to the pickups, these two wires go to pins 4 and 8. I think red goes to 8 black goes to 4, if you are using DCC it doesn't matter anyway. If you have two black wires that go to the tender connector they also go on pins 4 and 8, but you must make sure that in this case that you get them the right way round or else you get a short so attach the tender and do a continuity check between wire to tender and wheel on tender and then wheel on loco. Either that or wire it up and if you get a short swap them round. You should see two black wires, or a red and black wire go to the motor. These go to pins 1 and 5. If the loco goes backwards when it should go forwards after you have attached the wires to 1 and 5, swap them over. It is easier to do this at the motor end. Finally check after you have wired up the socket that you don't have any shorts between pins, so check for fine traces of solder between tacks. These PCBs are horrible to solder to. From what you say only the red wire has fell off so it goes to either pin 4 or 8, so check which one doesn't have two wires in it, or no wire at all (if you don't have tender pickups) and that is it.

Well Deem the simple answer is probably because the owner broke it, as to getting a complete body shell best of luck with that. Unless you can find a scrap one they are difficult to source, Hornby do not supply them as spares. Perhaps the owner doesn't want to attend the toy fairs from now to eternity looking for one or sitting on EBay hoping one appears and then finding that you get outbid with 10 seconds to go. Yes I have been through the process of finding replacement body shells. Of course then when you get it home finding a hairline crack that you never noticed under the poor light. So I applaud the guy trying to fix it I didn't even realise you could buy it as a spare.

That seems about right, the cost of a Railroad diesel plus carriage. Any idea if this the one with the modified couplings as in the "Yesterday" Hornby program?

To be quite honest LaisDCC decoders are no worse than certain other makes. When I first ventured into DCC I tried all sorts. I eventually found the following to be the most reliable, Zimo, Hornby and LaisDCC. I don't think I found any of them had decent motor protection, in that if the motor has a short circuit or draws more that the device can source then bye bye decoder. Seeing as I have quite extensive experience in electronics I did try to figure out why this was the case seeing as everything I designed had decent overload protection. Eventually I came to the conclusion that most of the overload protection worked for a little while before it blew, measured in seconds. I did contact YouChoos about how they did it and the answer was basically there is only so much you can do. Surprisingly I have never managed to blow up a Zimo decoder even when the valve gear has jammed on a loco, so obviously they are doing it right. Seeing as their economy versions are probably one of the cheapest, I have stuck with them ever since. I will add I have nothing to do with Zimo, I just like their products.

I suppose we could use the normal excuse due to the global chip shortage. I doubt it is the case. This does highlight the issues of preordering and paying a deposit. Sadly preordering from Hornby at the the moment seems the safest option as seeing as their releases run at least a year late, that is the only way you can guarantee the price and not pay a deposit. My mail "inbox" is constantly getting offers of preorders on lots pf things, sadly it is not getting many for actual models released.

As I said in my original post LaisDCC decoders are easy to fry, I have even had them die when previously they have run the loco perfectly. Do a stall test on the loco and check what the maximum current is. Then add about 10%. Now check what the maximum current limit on your LaisDCC decoder is. Generally with mine, works perfectly on a straight piece of track, put it on the layout with curves and especially points, they die. I figured that to go round bends and cross points requires more effort by the loco, hence an increase in motor current. Surprisingly, I got the same effect with Hattons and Hornby ones when fitting them to old ringfield motor driven locos, although in both cases the current was supposedly within specification.

I am amazed they offer it as a spare part. Generally other than a very few exceptions Hornby don't offer smoke deflectors as spare parts (I wanted one for a Brit). I agree with everyone else, if Hornby provide it as a spare part it must pull off, generally the bits you have to glue they don't provide as spare parts.

Yes it sounds like it has died. Generally with LaisDCC decoders they generally smoke so have a look at it to see if the sleeve around it has melted. As it programmed perfectly I suspect a motor current issue. The 0-6-0 Hornby motor takes a reasonable amount of current so it might be that the decoder has died through "overcurrent". I have had many go that way. Generally when I convert my locos I put a socket in the wiring, it makes replacement easier. In the case of an 0-6-0 I use a 6 pin socket, the Bachmann or DC Concepts ones seem to be the most reliable, I found the LaisDCC ones tend to pull out the wires too easily. I use a Zimo 8 pin decoder, which has a much higher current limit.

I managed to get a couple of the really old 21 pin Hornby circuit boards, from when they were fitting LokSound decoders. They fit in the tender in the same place as the 8 pin one. They are such a neat design and so easy to wire. I just cannot understand why they stopped using them, I suppose it is something to do with cost (double sided PCB with plated through holes verses single sided poor quality one). If you take the systems approach a 21 pin decoder socket is a much smaller than 8 pin socket and lead. Funny on the latest 8 pin DCC socket offerings from Hornby I have noticed that they have gone to a dual sided plated through hole version, so I suppose they eventually realised the cost save wasn't worth it (plated through hole pcbs are easier and quicker to wire and more reliable).