What About The Bee
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Posts posted by What About The Bee
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Of course, the clever lads will add 4 leds that are two color. Say red & green.
Put two on either end of the layout. Label one at each end Controller A, the other at each end Controller B.
Wire accordingly, such that when Controller A is powering the track, the leds labeled A are green, whilst the other two, corresponding to Controller B, are red. When Controller B is powering the track, the leds labeled B are green, whilst the other two, corresponding to Controller A, are red.
That way, when at either end of the layout, you know at a glance which controller is powering the track. Fairly easy to do.
Bee
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Hello TFoch
One possible solution to your requirements would be to use so called 3-way switches. You may have these in your home, to control one light from two locations. The pair of 3 way switches controls one output. Flipping a 3 way switch changes the polarity of the output. If the output was on, it goes off. If the output was off, it goes on.
Now combine that with a double pole, double throw relay. The output of the 3 way switch pair controls the magnet in the relay.
So in this diagram, when the electromagnet in the relay is on, DC Controller B is selected. When the electromagnet is off, DC Controller A is selected.
Place one 3 way switch at one end of your layout, and the other 3 way switch at the other. You now can use either DC controller, selected at either end of the layout.
One Caution: Switching to a DC Controller that is at maximum power will lead to locomotive disaster. Remember to always turn the DC Controllers to zero when not in use.
Bee
PS plenty of 3 Way Wiring diagrams on the internet. Here is one
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From the BBC
Zoomed
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Hello Potterton
I did spend a bit of time on your request. I slightly broadened the search criteria to include any non-passenger consist hauled by a Class 52, as the overwhelmingly vast bulk was passenger. Further, I did not restrict myself to any time frame.
Please do enjoy the following 3 images!
https://www.jamiesquibbs.com/class-52.html
https://www.dawlishtrains.com/class-52.html
It is claimed that this one is from 1976
No date given on this one
Bee
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A charitable contribution to the Railway Museum!
Bee
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Hi Three Link
Those 0000-160 screws terrify me. Once started they work like any other screw. It is the getting them started part that is insanely difficult.
Thank heavens I only have approximately 30 of them in the valve gear, at latest count. I shall ask you to prepare my straight jacket in anticipation of the event. Please and Thank you!
Bee
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JJ's recent request about what to do with 23 rewards points gave me an idea.
Charitable Contribution to the Railway Museum.
If Hornby permitted us to make them into a monetary donation to the museum, the goodwill created will more than compensate Hornby. It benefits the Museum. It benefits Hornby. It gives us a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Sure, 23 points is a small amount. But each penny helps.
Bee
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A Progress Update
The left hand side of the Stephenson Valve Gear is in place. All relevant moving parts are now installed in the model. With the exception of the control rods (in green), the moving parts are copper colored, representative of the material they will be made from. The control rods will also be copper, but I wanted to emphasize the control rods, as they caused this re-work
The 0000-160 screws are all in place, with the appropriate sized holes for tapping.
The handles are finally on the model, the inspiration for this entire process. These curved handles are located on the valve gear axle, above where the footplate will be, and are shown properly quartered The left hand handle is drawn at mid-phase, whilst the right hand handle is drawn at the furthest forward point of rotation.
Those pesky green control rods now clear the gap between the firebox and the wheels! You can observe the control rods behind the wheels and in front of OO Planet's shell. These are connected to the control levers in front and back. As the front Valve Gear axle rotates, it drives the front control levers. These simultaneously push on one control rod while pulling on the other. This will cause the control lever on the Valve Gear axle above the footplate to rotate. In turn, the causes the curved handle to wiggle back and forth.
Note the uneven length of the footplate Valve Gear axles. This places both handles to the left hand side of Planet's footplate, where the OO LMR Engineman could use use them.
Plan Going Forward
Get the right hand side of the Valve Gear installed. This is fundamentally a mirror image of the left hand side, but needs to be drawn. It is a tedious process of grinding out the parts, all of the inventive nature is complete.
Design the bracketry to support the Valve Gear. All of the moving bits just float in space right now. I needed to understand the requirements of the moving bits before designing the static bits of the Valve Gear. With the moving parts in situ, the static parts fit around them. As per usual, I will overthink every detail!
Is there any doubt?
I started this process with the thought that it would be a lengthy process. That may have been a ridiculous under estimate! Of course, for a first time effort, I expected to make mistakes and create re-work. But that has not been the major consumer of time. If this is what Hornby goes through, is there any doubt now why new products take so gosh darn long? I need only please myself. Hornby is in the unenviable position of trying to please everybody. Each detail will be flogged to death by the crowd, causing Hornby mountains of work in an effort to get everything just so. Is there any doubt?
Bee
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Why in the world would Hornby do something so chaotic.
The original artwork is restored. Precisely the same artwork displayed during range launch.
A quick review. Original artwork removed, substituted by non-representative artwork. Written communication from Hornby trying to explain it. Substituted by "image coming soon" artwork. Substituted again with the original artwork.
Bee
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Hello Graham
The Ruston 48DS was a shunter. It belongs in your rail yard or industries, moving wagons around. I would suspect anything on the rails after the start of production in 1936 would be fine. Production of the Ruston 48DS ended in 1967, but some are arguably still active at heritage lines today. Likely used in an industrial capacity to 1980ish, perhaps later.
I see the Ruston as a utility shunter, moving anything and everything. Just not on the mainline!
Bee
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Hi Al
You indicated there may be some retainer. Perhaps so. I can guarantee you, given his former position on the executive staff at Hornby, Mr. Kohler is bound by a non-compete agreement. The dangling of a retainer keeps the agreement gentlemanly and continued for a few years. It simply would not do to have Simon consult at Accurascale, for example, due to his extensive insider knowledge.
Will Hornby bring Mr. Kohler back in? I actually hope, for his successors sanity, that they do not. Better for the successor to not be second guessed by Simon.
He dealt with me only in writing, but did listen and obviously was a great asset to Hornby. I wish Simon a happy retirement! And if, perchance, Hornby lures him back, they pay him a wonderful salary!
Bee
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Hi Daniel
I make that to be
Hornby R2064
running number 2468
Bee
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Oscar has a wonderful layout JJ!
Worthy of watching and always something marvelous. Recommended
Bee
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Hi Going Spare
Apparently so.
The inverse of my situation! I desire LMR and I usually can only get it from the UK.
It is always worth asking a seller if they will ship across the pond.
Bee
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There's one on that auction site right now.
Bee
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I left off with the eccentric rods integrated with the gear train. The eccentric rods thrust forwards and pull backwards. This force acts on a lever which is mounted to an axle at the front of OO Planet.
Shown is a fuscia colored axle near the eccentric rods. Each side of the valve gear functions independently. All of the timing is integrated at the eccentrics, shown in an earlier post.
Torque
The eccentric rod linear motion is converted to rotational motion. Naturally this creates torque and for OO Planet, several dilemmas.
Firstly, the rotation will be impeded by friction. If the bearing surfaces are rough, high friction will be encountered. Possible breakage.
Secondly, torque and lever length can create high forces. The lever driven by the eccentric rod will be long compared to the radius of the shaft. Possible breakage.
Thirdly, gripping a shaft, without slipping, is non trivial. All of these parts are tiny! That shaft you see up above is ~¼" (actually 6.625 mm) long.
Fourthly There will be three levers on that shaft. One to be driven by the eccentric rods. One to operate the slide valve over the piston. One to cause an oscillating lever on the footplate. In ¼".
Manufacturing
The dilemmas posed preclude 3D printed plastics. The dot size of the printer (0.4mm) compared to the feature size of the 3 levers is simply too large. Plastic layers can shear apart under load.
Metal seems like a good choice. It can be smooth, lowering friction. Metal will likely not shear apart under load. But how to create tiny metal parts? The parts could be cast, but how to create the tiny mold?
Copper can be etched, but the thickest practical sheet is 0.5mm. 0.5 mm by itself is quite thin.
Solution Set
All parts are metal. The screws are 0000-160 × ¹/₁₆", commercially available. Some will be used as set screws, others will serve as the underlayment for a sleeved axle.
There are three levers on the shaft.
I begin with the lever that is driven by the eccentric rod.
[edit: the arrow should point to the other notch on the other eccentric rod. Whoops!!]
It consists of three parts. The outer sheet is etched and folded into a U shape. The two inner sheets will be tapped (commercially available taps 0000-160) to accept the screw. All will be 0.3 mm sheets, etched. The bottom screw will engage the notch on the eccentric rod.
Note that the U is sized such that, when the axle is in place, the two inner layers are tightly bound, because the axle holes, around the U, are positioned to tight tolerance. Each U assembly will be epoxy glued on a temporary shaft and will likely require reaming. Tapping to occur post reaming.
In the middle is the scottish yoke. The lever consists of two etched inner sheets, tapped, held by a U surround.
The outer lever will drive the control rods, which in turn will drive the oscillating levers in the footplate. Another U shape surrounding two inner flat sheets, configured appropriately. More etched copper for the control rods. Note the sleeve in this case, over the screw. This lesson will be back fitted onto the lever driven by the eccentric rods when imported into the main model.
Onwards!
Bee
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With a guard at every door, as the article states, I cannot see how this is a safety issue. No need for central locking, if there is a guard there whose entire job is safety.
Bee
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There has been a change in the cosmos.
Hornby has finally updated the imagery on this. It appears as it should have from day 1 of the change.
It will be amusing to see Hornby attempt to meet Autumn 2023 delivery!
Bee
Mods: I have noticed if I submit an image, I get the approval message, not the "visiting from US message" which logs me out.
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No, thank you, I would not, as the US store has nothing LMR.
This is the offending pop up. Should make it easier for the IT team to trace, along with the update time and date, indicating revision.
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24May2023
0423 GMT
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The latest Hornby web maintenance update has a terribly amusing feature.
It notices that I am browsing from the US and asks if I want to go to the US Store. "No thanks" I reply and then Hornby logs me out
Particularly annoying when trying to post, as I log in, type the post and hit "add post". Hornby asks "We notice you are from the US...". I get logged out and the typed post is lost.
Example: This is the second time I tried to add this post.
Bee
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I like ellocoloco's idea.
Get a T gauge train set. Prototype 4'8¼" is 3.175mm in T.
7" live steam is 2.333mm in OO.
Close enough
Plunk a OO seated figure on a T train. Instant live steam train! Functional too!!
Bee
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I've successfully integrated the gears, eccentrics, eccentric rods and motor. It all fits inside the shell and clears all the axles.
Before I begin, a quick review of my design objectives
1) I have the Hanazono Motor Bogie on hand. It has been tested with a 3D printed LMR tender, also on hand. It has fantastic tractive effort.
2) My OO Planet must speed match the tender. The easiest way to do this under DC is to start with another identical Hanazono motor. A gear train was devised to match speeds, such that OO Planet is 3 parts per thousand faster than the tender. The additional Hanazono motor is on hand.
2a) I've not given up on the belt concept, that idea has merit. For now, I will continue with the geared solution.
3) Make the visible valve gear be in motion. What is a steam engine with static valve gear? The valve gear must move!
4) Practical manufacturing considerations. In the first pass, manufacturing the components was only a second thought. Ultra fine parts look great, but cannot be made in an economic sense.
5) The look and feel of Stephenson's Planet. OO Planet will have some compromises, but these should not detract from the presentation.
The first part of the integration was quite simple. The motor was in the firebox, but it was simply too wide to let the valve gear pass between the rear wheels and the firebox. As such, the Hanazono motor was moved into the smoke box. To insure that the motor would fit, the shell of OO Planet has a 1mm wall thickness, and the motor was placed such that it does not interfere the upper boiler shell. The gears were re-arranged to fit.
Next, the eccentrics were added to the crank axle. These provide proper quartering to the valve gear and work essentially as does Stephenson's Planet, albeit not on the main axle. The red axle has a 1:1 gear to the wheel axle. Thus, the valve gear and oscillating handles will absolutely be in time with the wheels. You can see the eccentrics in the following image.
The eccentric rods must clear under the motor. Those bends in the eccentric rods are to clear the front axle
The Walking Rods hold the Eccentric Rods up in front of the smoke box. The Walking Rods pivot on the Eccentric rods and will appear to walk when in motion. Scale Walking Rods connectors are simply too fine to be practically manufactured. My current concept is to etch copper plate 0.4 mm thick.
The red/white scale is 1 mm colored, to give a sense of size. The copper plate will be bent. The etched material accounts for the bend through the neutral axis. The axle shown will likely become a shoulder screw.
The arrangement of the Walking Rods and Eccentric Rods is shown. This is drawn properly quartered, with all relevant angles.
At the top of the smokebox, observe the blue connectors which are from phase 1 and compare to the new etched connectors. This mechanism on Stephenson's Planet permitted the Engineman to lift the eccentric rods, to essentially put Stephenson's Planet into neutral. The purple mechanism will be static, as there is no need for functionality.
I am very excited. This has moved from being a tentative design into a design that can be manufactured. Going forward, I will lay in the remainder of the valve gear, to include the oscillating handles on the footplate.
Drawbacks
A) you can see the motor under the boiler. This will be in a black shell. I am mindful that most of this is below the level of the sandwich frames. It is unfortunate, but speed matching to the Tender, under DC, requires the same Hanazono motor. It may be a tiny motor, but so is OO Planet!
B) The connectors are ridiculously huge when inversely scaled. In fact, most of the valve gear will be as well. Yet if I was to scale a 1" rod, I end up with 0.013" (0.333 mm). I need to be able to attach parts with a rod or shoulder screw, this requires some compromise. I will have to live with it, or spend a fortune manufacturing tiny non-functional parts.
Onwards
Bee
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Hi Moccasin
Structural beams are in place.
Bee
Two control points on a DC track?
in General Discussion
Posted
Hi XYZ
That is what I suggested, a DPDT relay. I sprinkled in a pair of 3 way switches, to be able to control the relay from either end of the layout. Its nice to know we think alike!
But that isn't what TFoch requires. After carefully re-reading the initial post, I think TFoch wants to manage one DC controller from two physically different locations.
If that is wrong, TFoch, please do correct me. In searching for a solution, clarity of requirements are necessary.
If that is correct, then two of your DC controllers rotary outputs need to be injected into the DC controller. You could buy a duff controller of the same type, extract the rotary and wire up a switching circuit. It would mean taking your existing controller apart.....
Bee