What About The Bee
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Posts posted by What About The Bee
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Hi Deem
Your Back To Back [this is the proper term, not 'wheel spacing'] is entirely too small at 13.8mm
The means that the inside surfaces of the wheels must straddle the wing rail and check rail at the points. If the points are made to the intermediate OO standard, that is 14.1mm
So think this through. The gap between the wheels is smaller than the two rails which must simultaneously fit betwixt them. So of course the loco hops upwards.
Please set your Back to Back for all axles to a minimum of 14.2mm. The Intermediate OO Standard demands that the Back to Back be 14.5mm, but we need not be so rigid.
Further, I would recommend you search out the Intermediate OO standards and understand what they specify.
Bee
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Like many, I am happy with the announced program. Once I confirmed there were no fees, I joined instantly. I will puchase directly from Hornby anyway, so this is a nice perk.
I looked at the Forum to see what others might think of the Hornby Rewards program. I also looked at some other message boards.
There has been quite a bit of debate as to Enthusiasts canceling pre-orders, only to reinstate those orders. In this way, they intend to maximize their reward points. While I can understand why this would function, it is fundamentally just system manipulation.
I found this under the terms and conditions:
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Consequences of misuse
In the case of improper use for which the Member is responsible, Hornby Hobbies Ltd retains the right to terminate the membership or withdraw Points or Rewards, refuse to issue Points or a Reward or refuse to accept the redemption of Points or a Reward.
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I thought for quite awhile about the method offered here and on other forums. Is the cancel/reinstatement manipulation equivalent to "misuse"? I am hopeful that this assessment is overly cautious, and Hornby does not see the manipulation as "misuse". Yet it could be.
For me, I will just let my pre-orders stand as they are. I have no intention of potentially ruining a long term benefit by getting myself terminated for a negligible number of near term points. Your mileage may vary.
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I've sent the text of the post to:
marketing@hornby.com
with a request to forward to Mr. Kohler.
Fingers crossed, Hornby models of these legendary locomotives find my layout.
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Lion R30232 has sold out and a second run announced.
All three runs of Rocket R3809, R3910, and R3956 have sold out. No new runs announced, but three runs sold out within such a short time span is fantastic business.
Surely Hornby can see the vitality and interest of Enthusiasts in their sales.
Patentee is the precursor to all steam locomotives that follow, they are merely variations of the Patentee theme. The Marklin Adler shows that Enthusiasts know and appreciate the Patentee design. Patentee would be most welcome on my layout.
Planet, LMR9, is extremely well known due to the reproduction locomotive at the NRM. I would simply adore Planet on my layout. An Enthusiast who knows of Rocket and Lion, surely is aware of Planet.
If the levers on the foot plate of Planet would oscillate as they do on the prototype, I would be thrilled. Its quite simple to implement via a cranked axle. It is not necessary to make the cranked axle the extent of the prototype, but simply enough to make the levers move.
I'm frankly surprised that Hornby have not already made this available as a pre-order to judge interest.
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Hi Luciton! 👋
You wrote:
[Hornby] can fall over themselves tooling up for museum pieces from 1829
I'm an enthusiast of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. I enjoy the research, the literature, the period illustrations and, of course, the Hornby models. While I may take some small quibble with some detail or another, I find the product line quite enjoyable. Based upon how rapidly the Hornby models of the LMR go out of stock, other enthusiasts must find enjoyment as well.
There is little need to put forward your preference at the expense of others.
In other posts, you have indicated your layout models modern, electrified trains. You obviously take enjoyment in that. I would not think to impinge upon your desires by asking Hornby to stop making modern models just so I could have some obscure piece of LMR rolling stock.
If I might, I hope Hornby does take on models in the 31X class. Best of luck that Hornby can see it too!
Cheers!
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Hi Lyctus
I live in an area that has had electrified third rail lines for a very, very long time. NYC.
There are stories passed around, rumors if you will, of workers electrified. There is one persistent story of a worker who fell onto the rail and kept himself from touching ground until the system was shut off.
If you poke around hard enough, you will find a video of a homeless person who grabs the third rail. I would strongly advise against viewing this, it is quite gruesome.
As to the crowbar?10,000 amps at 600VDC means that one of two things occurs. The crowbar is thrown off just before solid contact, when the arc superheats the air like lightening, or the crowbar, unable to carry the current, simply melts.
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Earlier, regarding the Rainhill Trials, I wrote:
The requisite loads and cars that each competitor was required to haul could be an additional sale.
Full stop. What exactly did those wagons look like? There are precisely two engravings from the 1800s we can examine. A simple google search will show both of them. Google "competition rainhill" and then select the images tab. I present them here for convenience.
Turn your attention to Image 1. The text online, associated with this image, indicates that it was created in 1898. So disappointingly, this image is not a contemporary image, whatsoever. The Rainhill Trials occurred 69 years earlier than the image, which likely precludes the artist from having witnessed the event. So where did the artist get the inspiration from?
Image 2 shows the indisputable source of image 1. All of the design elements of the image are the same. Rainhill Skew bridge on the left, the stands in the background and Rocket with 2 wagons. In real life, the stands were ¼ mile from the bridge, yet both images show the stands nearly abutting the bridge. Rocket is hauling the same number of wagons. Rocket is facing the same direction. The only difference is the angle we view Rocket from. In 1898, it is an isometric view of Rocket, in image 2, an elevation view of Rocket.
The source for Image 2? The book entitled "The Life of George Stephenson and of his son Robert Stephenson; Comprising also a History of the Invention and Introduction of the Railway Locomotive"; By Samuel Smiles, 1857. The image may be found on page 324.
Now some have proposed that this image is conjectural. Further, since it is from 1857, that the drawing suffers from the similar defect of artist imagination.
Let me put paid to that discussion, immediately.
In the 1868 edition, the preface states: "In preparing the original work for publication, the author [samuel Smiles] enjoyed the advantage of the cordial cooperation and assistance of Robert Stephenson, on whom he mainly relied upon for information".
Furthermore, there is much existent correspondence from Robert Stephenson to Samuel Smiles. This particular letter
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/documents/aa110100407
from Robert Stephenson mentions the biography of his father, to Samuel. It is clear they collaborated. Today, we might call this ghost writing.
From the acknowledgment in the preface, I conclude that Robert Stephenson had approval over the work produced. That the content was subject to his approval. The drawing that represented one of his most crowning achievements had his direct involvement and approval. Robert Stephenson was not just a competitor, he was present and participated in the event. His memory of his fantastic achievement would have burned brightly in his minds eye, for all his life. He was there. He triumphed! The drawing of his achievement, 'Competition at Rainhill', should portray that!
Let us now turn to Image 3. Image 3 is a close up of image 2, wherein we examine Rocket and Rocket's Rainhill wagons. One thing that seems apparent to me, in 2022, is that the wagons look very much like the tender. The only difference seems to be that the tender has the water barrel mounted, but the tender is otherwise identical to the wagons. Notice the quantity of panels, the height of the three wagons, the length. All very similar or in fact, the same.
As well, in 1898, the artist has observed the identical nature of the tender and wagons. Image 1 shows the tender and wagons cut from the same cloth.
We have an 1857 drawing approved by Robert Stephenson himself. An 1898 drawing, derived from the 1857 drawing, clearly identifying what we can observe as well. The wagons and tenders are all the same!
Image 4. Hornby Rocket (R3809 / R3810 / R3956) is shown with two wagons R60164.
Your views are solicited.
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I hear the call for the Royal Mail coach. I understand why enthusiasts would not want to purchase an entire set, just for that one coach. Yet I have the inverse issue. I have R3956 Rocket Royal Mail, R30232 Lion and R796 1980s Rocket. But what of the coaches Hornby have released, that are in sets I do not have? I do not wish to purchase full sets if the only thing I require is a named coach.
Mr. Dawson details a list of 34 'Known first-class coaches 1830 - 1845' in Table 9; "Locomotives of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway", 2021.
Of the early releases by Hornby, R346, R621 and R796, there were only 3 named first class coaches, to wit: Times, Experience and Despatch.
In R3809 Triang Rocket, there were Times, Experience and Despatch, consistent with it being a memorabilia design.
In R3810 Rocket, Hornby included Globe, Renown and Wellington.
In R3956 Rocket Royal Mail, Hornby included first class coach Treasurer.
In R30232 Lion, Hornby have included Experience and Traveler.
In R40371 Hornby will have Huskinson.
Given that the list of 34 known names is far from complete from a Hornby perspective, there is room to release 3 coach packs of first class coaches with new names. The tooling is done, one need only update the artwork. One of those new 3 coach packs could easily include the Royal Mail coach, satisfying those who require it.
The LMR contracted with more than 1 builder of first class coaches and further, they were improved over the years. A genuine mix of design is presented in contemporary prints. For me, this permits both old and new Hornby coaches simultaneously on the layout, reflecting true LMR consists. Cross coupling them merely means jettisoning the tension locks on the old stock and adding a few pegs. So I have no need of Times, Experience or Despatch.
Mr. Dawson's research of the LMR also reveals that Hornby have released names that simply weren't documented! That is, certain Hornby releases have no correlation with the known names. This can easily be waived away with creative license and that Mr. Dawson's list can never truly be exhaustive. Hornby is well within their rights here, yet it means there is plenty of opportunity to release multiple sets of first class coaches, using known names that have not been released.
And then enthusiasts can also get the Royal Mail coach! Which, I might add, is spectacular!
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Re: R796 Hornby Rocket conversion to DCC
redgatemodels have accomplished this. redgatemodels.co.uk
Please see their public post in this topic on rmweb https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/34949-trianghornby-rocket/
Redgate state they can install the chip for you, if the directions seem overwhelming
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I have received an update from Hornby on this issue. My belief is that Hornby will get ahead of this. This is a data processing problem, with known resolutions. It will just take time to execute and test the solution.
I have another preorder pending for R40371 Huskinson. Therefore, I will have a method of measuring Hornby's progress towards goal.
The text of Hornby's update follows
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Hello Xxxxxx
Thank you for your email
Sorry for this frustrating glitch. We are aware of it and we have informed the web team who are working on it.
Really glad you have received your Lion and that you are pleased with it
Best wishes
Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx
Trade Sales Administrator
Hornby Hobbies Ltd, Westwood Ind Estate, Enterprise Road, Margate, CT9 4JX
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Thank you Roger!
I have sent my forum post, along with a polite note to Hornby.
Integrating the subcontracted shipper (GFM Henderson) into the Hornby database is a non-trivial effort. I don't expect miracles or instantaneous response.
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Hello Roger
I am very new here and to modeling in general but I have had a decades long armchair fascination with the Liverpool and Manchester Railway.
Perhaps I misunderstood. Do Messrs Hornby not see Forum comments? I have a very positive view of Hornby and am simply trying to assist in their endeavors.
Would you mind directing me to the appropriate feedback mechanism. Appreciated and thanks in advance!
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I placed a pre-order for Lion (R30232). The order status was marked "pending". That made reasonable sense.
Lion arrived at Hornby. My payment was taken, and the order status changed to "processing". That made reasonable sense.
The package left Hornby's hands, and into the shippers hands. I know because DHL told me. Hornby did NOT. My order status remained "processing". What?
DHL flew my order over the Atlantic Ocean, got it through US customs and into my hands! Signed for! Very, very exciting. I've just checked my order status. "Processing". Okay, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The status field should reflect "shipped" when in the shipping firm hands and --> Hornby <-- should provide me with a tracking number. When the order is delivered, the order status should say "delivered". This is exactly how other firms do it.
Given Hornby's overt statement in their annual report to grow the online business, Hornby should have a world class website to match. It makes zero sense to tell me my order is "processing" AFTER delivery. Exactly what is Hornby processing!?
Mind, this is not a complaint over Lion. It is an issue over how customers are informed during the process. I am thrilled with Lion and have left a very positive review. I will see how that process works as I go.
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What little I know of marketing suggests that the public likes to participate in anniversary celebrations.
The public likes to commemorate an event with a purchase related to the event. Be it a £4 pamphlet, a £30 static display or even fully functional OO models. That object is a tangible reminder to the person who owns it of the celebration. Product at all price points is therefore a reasonable approach.
There is nothing wrong with what you have suggested. A Corgi set would indeed be spectacular. Certainly, not every enthusiast wants Novelty to pull a consist or Cycloped to be running up and down the rails. Yet many would commit a part of their layout to a static display. So yes, a Corgi Commemorative as well!
Cheers!
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Today is 27 September. 6 days into Fall of 2022.
I have just received an email from Hornby.
Lion is in stock!!! As promised. This is the way to manage customer expectations. Meet them!
Go Hornby!!!!
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With the 200th Anniversary of the Rainhill Trials approaching, I would hope that Messrs Hornby et al would consider producing ALL of the competitors.
Rocket is already in place, and surely Messrs Hornby et al are aware of the sales power of the locomotive.
Novelty, Perseverance and Sans Pareil each have boilers in which a motor could be tucked away. A 6 pin chip will be interesting.
Extra points for Cycloped! It would be simply amazing if the horse was to somehow move its legs. Put a really high gear in, to keep the velocity quite slow. This is sure to be a coveted model.
The requisite loads and cars that each competitor was required to haul could be an additional sale. I surely would purchase that as well.
The trials occurred in early October, 1829. It is now late September 2022. That gives Hornby just over 7 years (plus a few odd days) to make this happen. Make this so Hornby!!!
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Thank you for the information.
I'm relatively new to modeling, but with a very long term armchair interest in the L&MR. So please do forgive my rather neophyte questions.
I am to understand that selecting the season of the year is too fine a granularity for predicting production? That Messrs Hornby, et al, cannot select which ¼ of a year they think it will be produced? A large part of customer satisfaction is simply managing expectations.
I would be very surprised if Rapido would miss the marketing opportunity of coincidence with the film anniversary. Do you think this is also purely wishful thinking?
Again, I am quite unfamiliar with the delivery reputation of these organizations. I like to think positively, that they say what they do, and do what they say.
In short, I am trying to manage my own expectations, and not flutter about like a deranged lunatic. A little guidance is most appreciated. Thanks again!
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Let the season begin!!
Hornby have advised us that Lion is "Expected Autumn 2022". A glance at the calendar shows that today is the first day of that season, 22 Sept 2022. There are only 90 days from the 22nd until the 1st day of Winter, 21 December. So I haven't long to wait now. I shall take Hornby at their word. If Hornby state a season, I should believe it! So I am very excited that Lion may be on my layout by Xmas!!
I've ordered both Lion R30232 and the Huskinson coach pack R40371, which is also "Expected Autumn 2022". Additionally, the sheep wagons R60165 and horse wagons R60166, but those are expected in 2023.
What makes this most entertaining is that I have also ordered Rapido's Lion. Rapido have shown an engineering sample and have sworn to release Lion by the anniversary of a certain movie, 1 March 2023. There has been video of an undecorated Rapido model running on track, so Rapido are well along.
It will be quite interesting to see which model shows up first and further, which model best captures Lion's spirit. The winner in my little head to head shall retain the famous name Lion (LMR57), the loser will become Tiger (LMR58).
Of course, neither Lion nor Tiger, at issue, looked like the restored locomotive now in preservation.
But its my railway and that is how it will be!
Cheers!
Alstom Pendolino get stuck at points and poor pick up from track
in General Discussion
Posted
POINTS:
https://doubleogauge.com/intermediate-track/
WHEELS:
https://doubleogauge.com/intermediate-wheels/