Pendragon Sailing

Thanks Chaps…….I feel a project coming on 🙂

I have recently acquired a J50 tank engine (R.3406) which is DCC ready (8 pin), but has precious little space inside the body cavity for a decoder (and speaker). After examination, I have concluded that sound installation is (probably) not an option, but before I reach such a conclusion definitively, has anyone successfully installed sound into one of these (HM7000 or other make)? I note that there are weights in the side tanks that are supposedly removable. Does removing these provide the necessary space? I imagine that removal will likely affect the performance too, given they just provide a significant percentage of the overall weight of the loco. My current thoughts are that the only viable option will be to fit a non-sound ‘nano’ decoder that plugs directly into the socket. Thoughts or observations welcome……

Rob, I’ve had a closer look at the failed PCB and the device marked P1 has the letters RO printed in it, if that helps identify it??? (a resistor, perhaps?)

Ah, thanks Colin……I’m certainly no electrician, and these various electrical components confuse me at times. I understand resistors and their purpose, but all these other bits and pieces that find their way onto circuit boards are mostly beyond my understanding. As a general rule, for DCC operation I cut off the orange circular capacitors that are present, but hadn’t realised they can be in a different form if incorporated into a PCB like this one. You live and learn, I suppose.🫤 It took me a whole afternoon to figure out it was the PCB playing up….the situation had me completely flummoxed. Particularly when it ran perfectly on DC in both directions, and on DCC in one direction only. Anyway, problem now solved, and the J15 is up and running perfectly. Thanks everyone for their comments and suggestions.

I replaced it with a simple decoder socket….no electronic gadgetry, just the 8 pin sockets and their wire connectors. I wonder why Hornby chose to use this particular version?

Thanks Rob. Any thoughts on why one of these would cause the observed running problems on DCC but not on DC?

Mystery solved. After much diagnosis, it turned out to be a failed component on the PCB that receives the 8 pin decoder. Not sure what they are, possibly a capacitor or resister (see photo - the four thingys in the corners). Anyway, after replacing this PCB with a replacement, all is well…….very strange, but there it is. thanks for the comments and suggestions

The plot thickens on this issue. The loco works as expected under DC control (with perfect motion control, both forwards and backwards), BUT under DCC control (both HM7K Sound and DCC Concepts Zen non-sound), while the motor runs forwards with no issues, it won’t run backwards without the motor labouring, stuttering and stopping frequently. I’m ignoring sound at this stage. I’ve tested the continuity of the wiring from the decoder PCB to the pickups and to the motor (all fine), and I’ve removed the loco drive-shaft (so there’s no load on the motor) and again all good under DC control, but regardless of the DCC decoder I use (three different ones), the same result…….forward motion absolutely fine, but backward motion problematic. This has completely defeated me…..never seen this behaviour before! Anyone have any thoughts?

Here’s a strange one. I’m trying to install an 8 Pin decoder into my new Hornby J15 (R.3232). Loco works fine on DC and DCC (with a non-sound DCC Concepts Zen installed). Also the HM7000 works fine (sound and motion) on my decoder tester. BUT when installed in the J15, I’m getting sound but no motion……all very odd. Both the decoder and loco are fine separately, but when put together, only sound. Anyone else encountered this strange situation?

Alan, I recently replaced my iPad with a new one, and was expecting to spend a long time over one weekend transferring over and re-inputting the 34 locos I have, on to the new iPad. I was however very pleasantly surprised that the Apple ‘magic’ automatic transfer process not only copied all my Apps and data over in normal course, but it also transferred the full details of my Engine Shed and Function Maps that were in the HM7000 App too. I had no need to re-write any of the profiles or data, it was all there ready to go. NOW, having said this, I don’t have/use the Dongle so don’t know if the non-HM7000 data (i.e the TTS loco profiles and function maps ) will similarly transfer over, so maybe someone else can comment on this aspect. In any event good luck !

As an experiment, I tried to retro-fit one of the tiny plugs, and found it impossible. The connections are so minute there are no tools (or eyesight) that I know of that would allow you to do it at home. If you want to avoid soldering directly to the 21 Pin decoder, all you can do is to wait for Hornby’s PB supply chain to free up again. Alternatively, if you can get your hands on some suitable plugs that have already been wired (good luck there), you could then just solder them on to your Lais Stay-Alive’s wires. Not very helpful, I know. But there it is 🫤

As the originator of this post last September, I thought it would be useful to provide another update of where I’ve got to with HM7000, a year on from its original launch. I now have 34 locos fitted with HM7000 with all running smoothly and (mostly) behaving themselves out on the track. The one thing that upsets them is either a dirty piece of track and/or a dodgy point. The Bluetooth signal can’t cope with even a momentary loss of power and has to reset itself when this happens, which can take up to 30secs or so, depending on where the loco is listed in my ‘Engine Shed’. However, that’s the nature of Bluetooth, and in my opinion, its advantages for outweigh its disadvantages. This connection issue aside, I’m absolutely delighted with the performance and reliability of my 34 decoders. I’ve no doubt that I’ll be adding more over time (particularly when the 6 pin version is released). Furthermore, I have switched a lot of them from loco to loco and uploaded new sound profiles on many of them. The process is now second nature to me and rarely takes more than 10mins from start to finish. I don’t use the Elite or Select, therefore the Dongle is not an option, but that’s fine with me. My non-HM7000 locos run off my Digitrax Controller alongside the HM7000 on my iPad Pro. Everything runs seamlessly. Yes, the App still has a few little foibles that need to be resolved (Hornby is on the case), and of course we can never have enough sound profiles to choose from, but these small things aside, I count myself a firm supporter of the system and will continue to use it alongside my other, much more expensive, decoder solution (ESU LokSound). I look forward to further expansions of the system that will no doubt come in time, and in the meantime will enjoy what HM7000 currently has to offer.

Yes, the CV accel/decel settings made under BT control do stick when you then use the loco under DCC control, indeed ‘most’ CV setting do, but there are a few that may not (CVs 17, 18 & 19 sometimes play up, for some reason).

Have a look at the speakers available on the Roads & Rails website. They have many different sizes available with lots of helpful advice on what/how to fit in which loco. https://www.roads-and-rails.co.uk/collections/speakers …and yes, HM7000 decoders need an 8 ohm (or equivalent) speaker load.

Correct, Too Tall. That profile is not on the list (yet), but you might consider using the 2MT or maybe the 4F, in the meantime.

I’ve just posted a follow-up question on this topic, on the JMRI users website…..stand by

Malcom, for what worth, I’ve had up to 6 locos running simultaneously (the maximum I can cope with, not the system), so HM7k is more than able to run multiple locos at the same time. I power my layout using the Hornby PSU P9300 (5Amps) and control it using an iPad Pro 6th Generation. You mention that you’re powering your layout with the Elite, but on what platform are you running the App? Don’t give up, there is a solution out there for you and you will be able to run multiple locos.

Thanks Rob 👍🏼

Have Hornby issued the Function List yet for some of the more recently released profiles? (e.g Class 20, Hall Class, W1). I can’t see them listed on the latest link to the profiles page…….

All clever stuff….and utterly beyond me ! 😵‍💫 thank goodness we have some clever chaps on this forum 👏👏👏

That’s very true Rob, but at least the files are now free! By the way, I wasn’t advocating switching to Loksound, merely that ESU were changing their approach by providing free downloads of UK sound files, presumably as a direct reaction to Hornby’s products. 😃👍🏼

Clearly as a direct reaction to the free HM7000 sound files provided by Hornby, I now understand that ESU have released a large number of their LokSound 5 UK steam & diesel profiles, as free downloads from their website. Isn’t good competition a wonderful (and useful) thing ! 😃👍🏼

Actually, I’ve just re-read the Manual on this topic and the following wording on page 21…… HM7000 8pin and Next18 sound have provision for connecting a loudspeaker on the decoder pcb in the form of solder pads and a two-pin socket. HM7000 with 21 pin connectors do not have free solder pads for speaker connection… speaker connection is made through the 21 pin socket in the usual way or via the dedicated decoder speaker socket. I believe that Pins 9 & 10 of the 21 Pin sockets are those assigned to the Speaker outputs (but please check the Manual for that)

If I remember correctly from when I did this, the solder pads are marked ‘SPK’. They should be easy to identify. Good luck!

I guess that’s just the ‘burden’ of having too many locos in your collection, Ninja ! 🤷🏼‍♂️