Go_West Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Have had a Jamieson kit for some time and thought as this should be a simple build just fitting the standard A4 engine into this body I might have a go /media/tinymce_upload/aba86d643a0a179042ea39bc71988bd0.JPGMy brother in laws father was a drive for the LMS and did the west coast runs on goods and passenge services and would stop over at Carlisle before coming back to London which he said was greatly needed as as you may know this was called the long drag and drivers and fireman worked had to make the run. I don't know why but I'm not a great lover of the LMS maybe it's because they pinched a Great Western engineer to build there engines and generate new life into the company. The speed runs with the new 4 cylinder engine and the glory along with much press coverage would help establish the LMS as one of the leading rail companies in Great Britain.I believe that the much published speed run of I think 118 mph almost came to a crash when at the end of its run the driver had trouble taking the speed away early enough and the engine and train entered crossings and points at such a speed it threw the driver and fireman from one side of the cab to the other and luckily the engine never left the tracks but stopped at the platform with steam and sparks covering the somewhat anxious directors and guest.it was said that the fireman never work again after this event the shock was that great it changed his life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Should be 114 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Well documented in the book I have - The Duchesses by Andrew 112 recorded but 114 on the loco speedo.Definitely a hairy ride approaching Crewe at twice the normal rate.Tom Clarke driving John Lewis on the shovel.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 The West Coast line goes over Shap.The 'long drag' is the Carlisle - Settle line, going over Ribblehead and rejoining the 'main' at Carnforth. Ten miles of steady climb, and not a flat bit for a breather! Mind you - once over the top, it is a long drift down the other side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 The author was Andrew Boden.Not sure where his surname went after I typed it.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi Robdoes the book say what happened to the fire as the story I was told by Bill my brother in laws father years ago was that they were considering this fast run and asked old Bill along with other crews if they would push the engine to a high speed run Bill declined as at the time he was uncertain about the engine as he believed it had one or two problems but did say that these engine were the most powerful running in its day. I should check on line I suppose before comments by me made here in case things have been coloured in by the story teller. Or as my dad would say "I take that with a pinch of salt " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi KenIt does say it was doing 60-70 when the platform signal was sighted, twice the speed limit at the crossover and that it arrived with the brake blocks ablaze. A cryptic remark was made that we won’t be doing this every time we arrive.I’ll scan in the associated pages and email them to you later.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi Robthat will be great can't wait to look them overken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Did they ever attemp a speed run again or once the LNER got to 126 mph and the war looming up was there more important things to think about.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I don't think so, because as you put, they had more important things to do, and if I recall correctly, they trashed the bearings in the process, and it had to go 'in' for repairs. I don't think anything got really broken, unlike Tornado. (and the crockery in the kitchen car!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman Prat Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I don't know of any further attempts but, of course, the Coronation broke the speed record as it stood at that time. I suspect the LMS board were more than happy that they 'got away with it' the first time without chancing their arm a second time!! Coronation's run was an attempt at the speed record - Mallard's was only a brake test, the speed record was incidental . Believe that and you'll believe anything!! 😉 They didn't 'trash the bearings on Mallards run, they merely ran a big-end bearing hot. This also happened with a couple of Merchant Navies when the drivers were having a 'last fling' before electrification in 1967. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 2e0dtoerici take it that damage was done to the con rod bearings but what then of Tornado?Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 /media/tinymce_upload/e8422c5b4cf435e4c1b26b3e1a07d3af.jpgIts time to make a start and as I have a few of the A4 chassis all with no bodies some that were advertised as none runners for spare or repairs, so rummaging through my box of bits I found one A4 chassis with black wheels and as I think it will be in the maroon red (Crimson Lake) the black wheels should be ok as it looks like the blue engine had only blue wheels no doubt someone will put me right on that one./media/tinymce_upload/e1403f3beddfc7f73d2504acfe04be6a.jpgSome of the colours the engines were paintedAlso the name of this new engine as my brother in laws father was William how about6256 Sir William A. Stanier, F.R.S. Dec 1947orDuchess of Devonshire Jun 1938 Dec 1943 Aug 1946As a good name for my wife as we live in Devon still things might change as we go along. If I can pick up some more carriages then that would be great it seem that there are plenty of the blue sets about of which I have one but the maroon one seem less popular.With enough coaches maybe the train could be reproduce as it was?It sounds like it had the first class carriages at the London end of the platform, was this to save the posh people too long a walk?/media/tinymce_upload/e1829fc85a2d02bb2a45634247039d55.jpgThe kit for the engine is quite basic and does not seem to have the fine detail that can be seen on the Hornby models so I might make a few changes along the way.Also the pony truck on the LMS engine is of a different design to the A4 engines so to be correct should be changed./media/tinymce_upload/f2da48c2e8b113e2895aa8f07edcdc94.jpgSo before I start building the body of the engine the old chassis wants a complete over haul to check for restrictions in passages worn bearings and damaged seals, as I look at this picture I see the whistle is missing. As for the tender this is the only part that will need a totally rebuilt as the LMS engines had a 6 wheels tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Good stuff Ken. Another one of your great projects to bookmark. Some nice colour schemes there, hard to choose one, but if naming the loco after your good lady the duchess then maybe she should pick the scheme. My streamlined City of Edinburgh is in plain black and I have an un-streamlined one that needs a coat of paint. It will have the same name and maybe the same colour scheme as my painting and lining skills cannot match yours, so simplicity will rule the day. Edit...I just looked at the livery table in Wiki and plain black was a valid scheme for my named loco post de-streamlining.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 RobThe wife likes the red colour which is ok with me and the Duchess of Devonshire for the name so as long as this is avaiable then it will not be a problem but i could etch my own plates.moving on /media/tinymce_upload/f48f9ca68d4026b8e1eaaa1d458fb56f.jpgNow with the engine stripped down all we have left is the chassis and its main driving wheel bearings and as its built back up parts will need to be cleaned and inspected for damage and wear. The LMS would do this in the same way the boiler would go to the boiler shop the wheels to the wheel shop and so on the smaller parts like the brake rods and other link rods would go in a large tray and be immersed in boiling caustic soda for an hour this would remove the grit and dirt caked on these parts by oil and grease. Me washing up liquid and a good brush will clean most parts well enough./media/tinymce_upload/21262cd4c6be576c3e29e6558260ce66.jpgThis picture is of the parts being lowered into the caustic bath./media/tinymce_upload/76b59bba5cb40bf232bc2e694b708367.jpgThe middle axle carries the drive to the valve gear on the A4 and this bearing and axle do wear should the wear become great it can lead to the gears jumping a tooth and therefore put the valve events out. You might find this after a bad crash and on re-railing the engine it is not running as well as it did./media/tinymce_upload/fe90a08e8f616810cf54b71643810da0.JPGI have on other rebuilt engines replaced the bronze sleeve bearing with a ball bearing see picture here./media/tinymce_upload/b5d9da736ab79b33416ccc62b765f29b.jpgBy placing your finger on the thread of the axle try moving the axle forward and back this action will give you an idea as to how much wear it in these two components.If you are uncertain just how good or bad the fit of this axle might be then assemble the gear assembly that sits in the centre of the chassis and look and see just how much depth of tooth mesh you have when moving the axle gear forward and back if its considerable then the axle and bearing will need to be replaced./media/tinymce_upload/ea967e91e366e1c1978820bbecfda1c3.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/6920674ded70921db28e925edc805da0.jpgAlso look closely at this gear assemble and by holding one gear between the fingers of one hand and the fingers of the other and try to turn them against each other as in the picture here.Should one gear move or slip on the shaft then this will cause timing issue later on when in steam.The other 2 axles are less important and any wear here will not be a big problem./media/tinymce_upload/bc36de800c5566a5e84040be0146359f.jpgNext part to look at is the valve assemblyOn the A4 there are a few things to look out for First is the compression spring that presses the rotating valve up against the brass valve ports.This valve controls the valve events for the Emission of steam to the cylinders and the exhaust steam up the chimney./media/tinymce_upload/9db57bd2172e5a13c87b4d64e1e3801e.jpgHere you see the valve sitting on its spring as it was removed from the valve chest./media/tinymce_upload/8d5b5e2f33094a7c576723a64f2a9b2b.jpgA closer look reveals that the small pressure pad is missing from the top of the spring.It is a common fault and on later engines was replaced by a bronze pad but the main problem with this fault is as the plastic broke up it gets carried into the passageways and cylinders so a good clean of the ports and drillings to the valve block and cylinders will have to be undertaken to make sure all is ok.Here you can see the spring from an A3 with its bronze pad./media/tinymce_upload/ae7abfe30c7a22dea29cddd0998e189f.jpgYou might just see little bits of black plastic on the spring in this picture.While I’m talking about these parts I have mentioned before about the changes to the valve block in the picture here you can see the 3 different valve blocks./media/tinymce_upload/978148a652082d5a904694fad0dd836a.jpgFrom right to left the large brass one on the right is an A4 valve block common to all the A4’s and never changed unlike the other two. The middle one is an early A3 valve block and the one on the left is the valve block of the last A3 engines made. The reason for the chrome plating was that a problem was found with the wearing of the port surface. You can see that both the brass units have a clearly defined circle which can result in poor running whereas the chrome valve block has no sign of a circle. I have checked the chrome ones from time to time and all I have seen is that the chrome gets a mirror finish under the rotating valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I get the feeling this is going to be a good one Ken, especially the body build.The chassis bit would be within my grasp but the body kit would be a challenge too far for me and would end up like a dogs breakfast. When you see the main body bath tub in the kit you realise how much it looks like a ‘err’ upturned bath tub.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Robyour right about the bath tub the good ting is it has no plug hole? Which is a good thing from my point of view as it will allow some leeway when the hole for the chimney is drilled in place I can mover it a little for and back to line up with the Hornby A4 exhaust hopefully.just thought the crossheads are going to be the wrong type as the LMS had GWR style crossheads.Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 My fix for this part is a sheet of glass and some 1000 wet/dry and washing up liquid.Place the wet/dry paper on top of the glass sheet add the washing up liquid and with a little pressure move in a rotary action checking every few seconds to see if the surface has no wear marks left in it./media/tinymce_upload/9588d0e9b7bc66c133ee4c03d0469237.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/ebb92ec69a35d9d8b94953c5c8d74a45.jpgDo the same thing with the valve but I suggest just place a finger on top of the valve and move it in one direction the surface should look matt black./media/tinymce_upload/b90093b070ce02d4e1fea8114e73360c.jpgIn this picture you can see the difference between the old valve block on the left and the now cleaned up valve block on the right./media/tinymce_upload/f603cb6867b48fcd9a8aa1b27168d463.jpgNow the ports need cleaning and checking to make sure no debris is left in the passagewaysI use a syringe filled with water and some plastic tube.We are looking to see that the water exits the valve face ports and is a good jet of water this is carried out on all 4 ports./media/tinymce_upload/b3d0939b55bb8ab2e8cee41694468088.jpgIf the flow is poor then I us a bath of sulphuric acid and leave it to soak over night but take care if still no luck then a small drill run through the passages will do the trick followed by a wash out./media/tinymce_upload/1226f5789f2d70fe7f20965895afc605.jpgIn the picture you can see we have a good jet of water coming from the valve port.When happy all is well the parts can be put in a container for safe keeping and the next part started on./media/tinymce_upload/5ec0058abc3592794af84bac6f5750f2.jpgAs for the chassis I fitted a new axle as this would be a better fit than the old one and in most cases it’s the axle that wears badly not the bearing./media/tinymce_upload/5ea11b2459df0aefa112548778eaf639.jpgBy connecting the syringe to the bottom of the safety valve the water can then be push through the supper heater these tend to block up after time so check the flow and if its poor and by adding more pressure all that happens is the safety lifts then you might have a problem you can try a Descaling agent and some heat and leave over night.Check again and see if the flow of water is better. /media/tinymce_upload/c0ce1fda54208ad20123f6aba125dc6d.JPGCrank pins this picture is of the centre driver crank pin and you can see how worn it is.The groove nearest to the wheel is the long coupling rod which connects all 3 wheels the out side connecting rod run on the out end of the crank pin and this section is also badly worn and so will need changing./media/tinymce_upload/e7bec79e28f04cc2d328e0c343de67e4.jpgOne other thing came to light which I have found before is the heater wires become loose and give trouble this one came clean out the printed board padYou might be able to see that the solder joint has a small hole where the wire has popped out of.I put this down to lead free solder maybe and the fact that the wire is of steel.Check the wire is clean and apply some flux to the wire and tin the wire remove the old solder with a solder sucker or braid wire with flux on it this will pull the old solder off the pad.Refit the heater wire with some flux on it and re-solder in place./media/tinymce_upload/54bb713917750e02ceb12a0b4cc5b50c.jpgNow with the engine back together its time to try it out on some compressed air then start to build up the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Unbelievable that the complex pile of bits in the earlier picture can end up as a fully operational steam engine as seen above.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 Thank heavens for this thread it is so interesting. Roll on the next instalment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 look out Walkingthedog........................./media/tinymce_upload/79002e918b61cba9c405a83d4470496d.jpgThe compressed air test worked ok so a tender was added and some steam tests to run the engine in all went well apart from the electric motor and gear train seem to have a lot of noise so will have to look into that./media/tinymce_upload/32a0126357f980d8707af697d785242f.jpgLooking at the body parts it appears that these were stamped out of sheet rather than etched and look a bit ragged on the edges also some of the curved sections could do with a tidy up./media/tinymce_upload/fc4569585f1fa4fa099512ee12a86ef9.jpgCleaning and straightening the different body panels pictured here before they are soldered together.The idea is to build the complete body then cut parts mainly in the floor section to fit the chassis and its fixing points./media/tinymce_upload/a6edd0d07bfa7f8f0dba3c277a6425e1.jpgNow soldering the parts together add flux to both items then first tack the 2 parts together about every 20mm.After the length in this case of one side has been tacked togetherCheck that other parts that connect to this part will fit ok and that the 2 parts look straight and there are no or little gaps between the parts to be joined./media/tinymce_upload/3f725efa2cfb17d41cf92a513576b35d.jpgThen run the soldering iron along the seem over the total length of the joint. That is the first 2 parts fixed in position and move on to do the same thing to the other side panel./media/tinymce_upload/3764171576d1e865617693cadd4f8cc5.JPGwith the 2 side panels in place and the front of the cab, the bath needs fitting the instructions say to cut this to size as it is made longer that the foot plate/media/tinymce_upload/28e5d7a0e047a19f278930e9ab5bbe07.jpgI thought I’d add this picture in, remember me speaking about the valve block and how they wear after a time this is a picture of the valve block on the engine I have just rebuilt and it was only steamed for 20 minutes it was also over oiled as I do with all my engines and you can see the polished circle of the brass area where the valve has been turning so now you can see why the last A3 engine to be built had the part chrome plated.The steam runs went very well in fact I think we broke the speed record as the engine came off at speed 4 times during its run./media/tinymce_upload/ddbda0a417582040453a4b9bc24f6b95.jpgI did say I had problems with the servo motor this again is a common fault. The problem is with the second large black gear assembly in the picture this gear is mounted on brass bearings all very good you might think but the worm gear and its shaft are made also from brass and you shouldn't use the same type of materials for both parts Because of this the parts wear out quicker and the gear teeth become a little out of mesh giving poor control. /media/tinymce_upload/f6d68d85d43326c6a2ce33deaff9a806.jpgThe gear I am holding in this picture is the faulty gear assembly the other gear is the one that meshes with it and you will see this has a stainless steel shaft and I have never seen this type of assembly wear out and I have seen a lot of these parts.I have found some better gear assemblies in my spare box so these have been replaced and it is hoped that the next steam up the engine will run much better and with more control and less crashes./media/tinymce_upload/6ab79630114848b32f74cd850f0014ac.jpgThe body is looking not to bad so must press on, the front buffers on this engine are cast in white metal which I hate it doesn't look right and in a crash would not come out very good so I will build my own buffers for this engine, I go back as some might to the 1950’s when toy solders were made of lead and bits would get bent or in my case the heads would break off so to keep body and head together a match stick pushed in the neck of the body and the corresponding hole in the head would allow the solder to look the part once more it also meant you could now turn his head and make him look another way.A point about the body this body is about an 25mm or more longer than a Mallard so fitting the chassis into the body will be an easy job I think or I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Good progress Ken.That body looks like tinplate in the photos but I guess its actually brass.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 7, 2018 Author Share Posted August 7, 2018 Hi Ribthe kit is made from nickel sheet very easy to solder to ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 More please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 The TenderNow looking closely at the instruction and plans I seem to be a sheet short but as there will be many changes to achieve a live steam engine it will be suck it and see as I go along anyway./media/tinymce_upload/bef8050e2b1de97f2561387568b2b854.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/9d8cba1df2e8ca493984f1566cde8c0d.jpgAs before with the engine body I find it best just to tack parts together and solder up the various parts at the end if possible so in this picture you can see clearly the 3 solder tacks holding the tender side to the tender base./media/tinymce_upload/ca546dcf7d4a07a69f32a1a5db5dd45a.jpgThe first side panel looked ok and at right angles to the base so the second side was soldered in place again with 3 tacks./media/tinymce_upload/11fa8c93f352bdd32d1412991012053d.jpgWith the space inside the tender divided up into section I was working out in my mind how the tender boiler was going to fit in the remaining space. The tender looked to be smaller than the A4 tender so the Hornby boiler might not fit but this will be a job further down the line.This kit does seem to be just the basic model and there are no fine details to this kit. Take the tender at this point no hand brake no coal access hatch no tool boxes so these I will try to make as I find out what they look like./media/tinymce_upload/1ef36655f6e1cc9f450b1ca01a9dc44c.jpgThe body of the tender is almost complete so the chassis and wheels will need to be built along with the boiler this might be a bit of a fiddle but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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