hornby Magazine and Railmaster

[PJ_model_trains]

@PJ_model_trains

You are not alone in your frustration. I too will move on if LD is not with us soon and at a reasonable price. I am working on a layout at my Club using an alternative product which is light years ahead of Railmaster (but admitedly is more expensive) which not only provides LD but also allows handheld control from phone/tablet, both of which I want to have before I shuffle off this mortal coil. An updated version of the latter to fix the small issue of it not working on android platforms (but is still for sale I note) was allegedly due from Hornby by mid this year. If the timetable slip with that is anything to go by, LD is still going to be way off.

 

Thanks for your comments Chris, and confirming your frustrations, we appreciate Hornby had a financial issue and like many the fear factor of Brexit, most generated I feel by politicians, the financial sector and most of all the media, but customers will not wait forever, six years feels like forever to me.

 

What system are you using? 

[PJ_model_trains]

The beauty of Train-Tech (just round the corner from me and I know the folk there) kit is they think of an idea, develope it and get it onto the market soonest. They use simplistic logic and user friendly interface - look at their single wire linked autochange signal lamps for instance and their tiny multi-row programmable smart screen. Drawback if any - all products are relatively expensive, especially if you say needed 50 or more signals on your reasonable sized layout.

 

Important lessons to be learnt from them I feel.

Rob

 

Hi Rob

 

Train-Tech are a forward moving UK company, certainly one to watch. Everything they do they do well, custimer service is excellent, But prices are not cheap as you say. 

 

The programmable smart screen is a brilliant addition to their growing stock, they will do well for sure. It is sad Hornby and Train Tech could do well together, I know Train Tech have spoken with Hornby, eighteen months ago if I rmember correctly, but they got no response. A bit like most of our suggestions on the forum, LD is coming, RM updates, etc, I think!

 

[96RAF]

PJ

Train-Tech is in cahoots with Gaugemaster for their latest sound modules. Talking to TT at a recent show they do the tech and GM do the marketing, as evidenced by the sound modules for sale on the GM stand.

Rob

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ

Train-Tech is in cahoots with Gaugemaster for their latest sound modules. Talking to TT at a recent show they do the tech and GM do the marketing, as evidenced by the sound modules for sale on the GM stand.

Rob

 

A good combination of product and marketing technique.

 

But Hornby with RM could work together with TT if they got their head out of the clouds and saw the possibilities to further enhance RM, I think.

 

 

[Bulleidboy]

On another forum, the Moderator had recently attended a Hornby "function" in Margate, and reported there were a number of "surprises" to be announced on the 7th January - so who knows!

[37lover]

BB & PJ,

Thanks for the updates. I have 2 to 3 years before my retirement and when that happens I will have a lot more time, but probably a lot less money, to devote to my layout - LD with RM or some other system will be my ambition. Until then, or certainly until much nearer the time, I will have to just wait and see.

[PJ_model_trains]

On another forum, the Moderator had recently attended a Hornby "function" in Margate, and reported there were a number of "surprises" to be announced on the 7th January - so who knows!

 

Hornby.  😉

[PJ_model_trains]

BB & PJ,

Thanks for the updates. I have 2 to 3 years before my retirement and when that happens I will have a lot more time, but probably a lot less money, to devote to my layout - LD with RM or some other system will be my ambition. Until then, or certainly until much nearer the time, I will have to just wait and see.

 

Waiting is not a bad thing, it helps us appreciate the item when we get it. Waiting 6 years after Hornby generated the interest is a joke, and not a funny one.

 

The 7th January is not that far away, 3 weeksish, 4 possible to the announcement. The content of the announcement will be interesting, whether the fruit is in season is another question. Hornby dangled the sweets of LD coming, like offering them to little kids and then not carrying it through. For us, these are big boys toys, our toys, in effect sweets for us kids, Hornby in effect made our mouth water, then never produced the items and even worse was the silence.

 

I do hope is will not be a dangling of a carrot again, the reindeers will have gone home. I really do hope it is not a lot of hot air, it is us that have been dangling on, waiting, hoping, being loyal to Hornby, they cannot keep letting us down, we will go elsewhere, I am starting my third layout in the new year, it will be my last, my decision is about to be made, probably between mid Janauary, certainly by mid February.

 

Lets hope it is good news as we start a new year.

 

[Somerset Modeller]

Over the last couple of years there have been minor updates to railmaster and generally just to add new Hornby trains that have been released or essential bug fixes. Feels like a major overhaul of Railmaster is coming and by what this thread is saying it at last feels me with some confidence that this maybe true. Also select, elite and elink Have been out for many years and time for something new maybe and that’s why a change to select is happening.

 

fingers crossed for the new year.

[Augustus Caesar]

I see similarities with a takeover bid at Newcastle United... my team, of course. While we have waited six/odd years for LD to make an appearnace with all the bits along the way alluding to a coming soon scenario, it is similar to the Ashely wants to sell every January rubbish we have had to put up with here for eleven years.

 

Having said that I do feel LD is in the offing some time next year and hopefully it will justify the long wait... it HAS to actually. Can't really be seen to be a dud after all this time can it? So maybe both Hornby fans and Toon fans can be placated in the new year with LD and a new owner or set of owners.

 

I hold out for LD as it's a more realistic proposition lol

 

For non Toon fans I apologise for bringing that into the conversation but it is funny after all. 😢 😎 🤔

[Howbi]

Haaway the Lads.............. 😎............HB

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[96RAF]

Once upon a life ago (1971) whilst on RAF Recruiting out of Newcastle Careers Office I was requested to go to St James Park for a briefing prior to Remembrance Day Parade. The only room open was the bar, so we had a couple of pints to settle ours nerves, get introduced, etc.

 

RAF96 met with Army, Royal Navy Reserve and Royal Marine reps to practice rifle drill for the Sunday parade ending of course with rest on your arms reversed, each using our own service rifle.

 

We were each to stand facing out on a corner of the Cenotaph so getting the timing right when each service used its own arms drill sequence was not easy, but on the day in front of the crowds it was perfect of course.

...............

Is Haway the Lads not the cry of The Mackams at the Stadium of Light rather than the Toon Army. Long time since I’ve been to a footie match.

Rob

[Augustus Caesar]

Oh Rob... now there's a thing...

 

Haway the lads is the mackem version of the more superior and first invented Geordie version of Howay the lads and they use it like that so they can be different  🤔 although they'll have you believing they invented the word. Incorrect.

Taking or borrowing the word as they always do doesn't do them any good however... they've even got it plastered on the seats in their stadium... wey, wot tha like man?

 

The earliest recorded use of the word Howay (proper Geordie spelling) is as follows:

 

Early 19th century; earliest use found in John Brockett (bap. 1788, d. 1842), antiquary. Apparently from how + way.

It is pronounced

həˈweɪ

and is used for

Expressing a range of emotions and commands, especially encouragement or exasperation; 'come on!' as in 'Howay the lads'.

'Haway' came later and can actually be used by both the Geordies and their counterparts but to keep it true Geordies will use Howay and leave the mackems to their own devices and allow them to consider themselves lucky to have an alternative.

 

Haway isn't even in the Oxford English dictionary but Howay is... tells you something doesn't it...?  😎

 

 

That bar you reference is no more and the whole stadium has changed over time since those days. It's actually quite impressive but needs a little care and attention now since the owner can't be bothered to look after it.

[96RAF]

Well there you go, I was never sure of the definitive definition of Howay vs Haway and I note you corrected my spelling of the Mackems.

For the edification of these lesser mortals you may wish to tell the tale of how that name derived also.

Rob

[St1ngr4y]

Even American President Jimmy Carter used "howay the lads" when he visited Newcastle with Prime Minister Jim Callaghan in, I think, 1978 or thereabouts.

 

Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

Seems like Hornby needs 'Haway', or was it 'Howay' and find 'Away' to convince us guys LD is definately coming, in x-month in 2019. 

[Augustus Caesar]

@Rob

Post 1...

I can do better than that... studied this stuff years ago so here goes - some of this is copied from a text I have but that matters not... prepare for a long, but valuable read:

 

The origin of the word ‘Mackem’ is related in some way to shipbuilding and the Wearside pronunciation of ‘make’ and one interesting comment in Fordyce’s History of Durham (1857) could point to a late 1700's or early 1800's root for the term.

An alternative term for a Wearsider was Mac n’ Tac (or Mackem and Tackem) and this was more prevalent at one time and could have been the original phrase describing Sunderland people before ‘Mackem’ became popular. It is most likely a jocular observation of the Sunderland dialect in the way they pronounce ‘make’ and ‘take’.

‘Mackem and Tackem’ can be explained by the two principal forms of employment in 19th century Sunderland. The census of 1851 showed that sailors and shipbuilders formed by far the biggest workforce in Sunderland at that time. ‘Mackems’ could quite easily be the shipbuilders who made the ships and ‘Tackems’ the sailors who took them out to sea.

This seems straightforward enough but on Tyneside it is often claimed the ‘Tackems’ were the Tyneside shipyards that took Sunderland-built ships to have them fitted with engines in the Tyne yards. Possible of course, but not proven, and this suggestion, which seems to have later twentieth century roots does seem to have an air of superiority about it.

The engine-fitting theory could be doubted of course but ‘Mackem’ does seem to have originated as a jibe or an insult. Due to local rivalry, Tyneside would be a likely source for such a term, particularly as the traditional (Geordie) pronunciation of ‘make’ on Tyneside is ‘myek’ as opposed to ‘mac’ on Wearside. If it began as a jibe, then the term ‘Mackem’ has similar origins to ‘Geordie’, which also seems to have started life as an insult or patronising term that was then subsequently adopted as a label of local pride. (see Post 2)

In his description of Sunderland shipbuilding in the late 1700s and early 1800s William Fordyce notes that Sunderland shipbuilders were “vigorous and enterprising in the prosecution of their business”, but “did not appear generally to have been possessed of much scientific knowledge respecting it.”

Much of Sunderland shipbuilding in that early period (1700s-c1830s) was seemingly about building ships where quality was very much regulated by price. In his explanation of this situation Fordyce uses italics to emphasise the words ‘build’ and ‘make’ to describe the differing qualities of workmanship available. It is clear that he was relating a particular opinion of Sunderland shipbuilding in those earlier times.

The use of the term ‘make’ in relation to shipbuilding might be the first inferred use or at least the origin of the term ‘Mackem’. This is what Fordyce said (in 1857) regarding earlier Wearside shipbuilders:

“The degree of perfection in construction would seem to have been regulated according to price, hence it came to be derisively said that Sunderland shipbuilders could ‘either build a ship or make one.’ So recently in 1835, when Lloyd’s Registry was instituted Sunderland was not found worthy to claim any exemption from the rule that ‘no ship built north of Yarmouth should have a classification of more than ten years.”

In those early days it seems to have been a fashion for resourceful Wearside shipwrights to make ships in their own time, often cheaply, at their own expense and then sell them off at a reasonable price but without the guarantee of quality.

In 1800 one such resourceful man is known to have built a small ship weighing three keels on the village green at Bishopwearmouth. He then dragged it all the way to the river at Southwick a mile away using an old route called the Keelmen’s Lane. In 1817 another man built a small ship of 15 tons to the rear of Bishopwearmouth’s subscription library and then wheeled it all the way to the South Pier for its launch.

When it came to making rather than building ships, low cost, low quality vessels would potentially undercut the work of rival shipyards and especially those on the Tyne. If this was so then Newcastle would be the likely source for the jibe about Sunderland making rather than building ships that Fordyce refers to. After all it was at Newcastle that Daniel Defoe (author, Robinson Crusoe) observed that they build ships “to perfection”.

It seems clear that there was already some kind of insult about Sunderland making ships in the 19th century so if the term Mackem or Mac n’ tac was already in use we need to ask why are there no apparent written records? The answer may be that Victorian and earlier twentieth century writers, historians and journalists were more coy about using derogatory local terms than they would be today.

 

Post 2 follows... The terms of Geordie and Mackem

[96RAF]

Like it...roll on Page 2.

It will keep this thread alive until Jan 7th.

Rob

[Augustus Caesar]

@Rob...

 

Here's the reasoning for the names of the locals being as they are...

Some may be surprised by the extra term, presented below for the Mackems, somewhat but it is explained within the text... here goes:

 

Post 2...

 

There has always been an intense economic and cultural rivalry between the ports of Sunderland and Newcastle since at least the 17th century when the two towns (yes, we were both towns back then lol) took opposing sides in the Civil War. Even whilst at sea the two communities were determined to distinguish themselves from one another during the nineteenth century and William Fordyce again writing in his History of Durham in 1857 does reveal a term that was clearly identified with Wearside - at least out at sea. He has a footnote where he describes Sunderland's history and their making of ships:

 

“A writer in a recent periodical supplies us with the curious information that ‘Mariners term a vessel from the Tyne a Geordie and from the Wear a Jamie. At sea, they can distinguish the one from the other by the different colours on their bows, sides and stems etc.’…”

 

Why Sunderland vessels were called Jamies is not clear but it may reflect some long-established connection with Scotland, perhaps relating to the Civil War of the 1640s when Sunderland welcomed the Scottish garrison whose soldiers subsequently besieged Newcastle. In our explanation of Geordie we know that during the 1715 Jacobite Rising, Newcastle supported King George (the Geordie supporters) rather than supporting James, the Old Pretender.

The term Jacobite comes from the Latin for James and Jamie is of course another variation but there is no evidence that Sunderland was especially pro-Jacobite in the 1715 rising. Interestingly, however, the riverside community of keelmen at Biddick on Wearside are known to have sheltered a prominent Jacobite rebel, James Drummond, the Earl of Perth. Drummond, apparently lived in secret disguise and worked as a boatman on the Wear. He resided with a Biddick mining family called Armstrong - who perhaps not coincidentally have a Scottish Border Reiver surname.

 

So there we have it... Tynesiders are called Geordies because of their backing of King George during the Jacobite Revolution and the Wearsiders are called Mackems or Jamies (the latter they don't particularly like or even know about).

 

As the Mackems will try and have you believe otherwise these texts are regarded as the truest and most likely accurate sources for historical record.

[Howbi]

@augustus Caesar...........many thanks for the edification........I shall be careful not to mix up my 'Howay' with my 'Haway' next time I visit family in Durham......... 😀..........HB

[96RAF]

If you are from Derrum then you will be fluent in Pitmatic HB.

Rob

[Howbi]

Pitmatic.......not heard of that, Rob, I was too young to pick it up when we left Durham after the war but was always fascinated by my grandfather's turn of phrase and witty remarks.......he was a hewer in his local pit Deaf Hill, Trimdon.........HB

[96RAF]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/

...an if yer wanna lernit.   http://www.houghtonlespring.org.uk/articles/pitmatic_guide_book.pdf

Rob

[Howbi]

@Rob.........having read that Houghton guide makes me realise just how much I do know but didn't realise, I use a lot of those expressions day to day.........eee, tha nars.......... 😆..........HB

[Augustus Caesar]

Canny reads there like...

 

I must point out however that some words in the second link are not quite right. I'm not going to dig holes in it though.

A lot of that yakker is based in Ashington pit talk as well as Durham and the word for table (Chabble) is one of those which is not quite right. The Geordie word is 'tyeble' and if you try and pronounce that with the pit word afterward you'll see how it could be confused. The Geordie word came first obviously and it may well just be a quirk that chabble came about as a pure alternative where non locals to Newcastle would choose to be different and have their own derivatives. This happens all the time with different dialects.

 

What annoys me is that when some locals try and add words that may sound like your given dialect but clearly have been modern derivatives or additions and are taken up as if they are ancient gold dust and then everyone thinks they remember that word from the bygone days... when actually it doesn't, and didn't, exist.

 

I remember a story from around six or seven years back where a group of people met for the first time for a walk around the walls of York where each of us had an interest in Roman History. There were 19 of us, my wife included, who made the trip form all over England.

As we were walking and talking one woman said to myself that my wife talks more Geordie than me (I'd said on a communiation with her prior I speak Geordie) and I burst out laughing. My wife heard this and she just giggled, somewhat knowingly. The woman asked what was so funny... we didn't say anything or do anything for a few minutes but as we walked on and neared our next stopping point I just unleashed all this Geordie at her and she just stood still and couldn't believe what she was hearing. She couldn't understand a word hardly and when I saw her face I stopped. My wife was trying not to laugh. It took her a few seconds before she said 'How can you turn off the Geordie accent and speak clean English like that in an instant?" All I could think of is when someone talks a foreign language fluently and then reverts back to English it's the same thing.

Needless to say she apologised sheepishly but had no need to. It was so funny. One where you had to be there to see her face.

Most times on TV when you hear the 'Geordie' accent from the likes of Ant and Dec don't forget it's toned down massively for the national audience. Oz on Auf Weidersehen, Pet was more natural and he was aksed to tone it down but refused to do so but eventually did a tad but it was still one of the most 'Geordie' tones ever broadcast on TV in a series. My brother was a drinking pal of his back in the seventies and apparently he's like that in real life... or was back then.

 

One day I maight just stick a new thread giving meaning to some Geordie words and we'll see what other local dialect versions to these there are... who knows?

Greggs the baker (originally known as Greggs of Gosforth - based in Regent Centre until recently and just a short trip from where I lived) is a good one with his stotties (stotty cyek) which are local to the Newcastle area. I knew the owner personally, John Gregg, as he used to drive his little van around housing estates up here selling his baked goods when I was a youngster. His cheese pasties used to be the best in the world but they aren't the same now. Wonder what he'd make of his business now as it grew to sell local delicacies to replace the stotty in whichever locale the company became operative? Canny fella who did out for you and used to allow certain folk time to pay for the goods if short that week. Who would do that now in a mobile shop?