Aussie Jeff Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I’ve been wanting to build another biplane for a while, my first kit when I restarted this lark back in November 2018 was a Sopwith Camel. Probably wasn’t the thing to begin with but it turned out okay but I’ve been thinking I must be able to do better now I’ve had all this practice. Actually, I nearly finished the A02016 kit a week or so ago but it ended in disaster. I was attempting the rigging and dropped it. Multiple delicate parts broke, rigging went slack and, despite my best efforts, it just turned into a big mess. So here’s take two.I decided to build two planes this time, one the civilian G-ACDC and the other Royal Navy XL-717, but with a twist. Both will be ‘out-of-the-box’ but G-ACDC will be painted up in acrylics and the Royal Navy one in enamels. As both have silver wings I thought it would be an interesting comparison and still end up with two different looking models./media/tinymce_upload/7336f3100615f9c0aaf7e9e143d6fb69.jpgI was able to find heaps of pics for G-ACDC on the web but XL-717 was a bit harder bit I did find this pic of the real thing (taken in 1962) here - https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1215440. These will provide references for the respective builds. I hope to incorporate some of the lessons learnt from my failure as well.Instructions are identical for both kits (except if building the RAAF plane) except for paint call-outs and decal placement which will simplify things. As the parts in both kits are identical here’s a pic of just one set along with the two decal sheets./media/tinymce_upload/798f1beff8b5dc40a35f82d0f6947ae2.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/ae7283d82c8db085a10c99a88c47d007.jpgAs usual the kit kicks off with the cockpit, inner fuselage and pilots. XL-717 was painted with Hu 226 (Cockpit Green) and G-ACDC with Tamiya X-71 (Interior Green) above the waist and a blue I mixed to approximate Hu 89 below with a few bits of flat black on both. As I didn’t have all the colours for the pilots in enamel I recycled the guys from the previous kit and painted up another pair in acrylic.Both kits have had the starboard doors cut out and the fold-down option fitted – I chose this side because there is more detail on the inner port side, not that much of it will end up being seen (as usual). A couple of small decals needed to be fitted to the instrument binnacles and encountered my first problem. The decals for XL-717 went on a treat, but on G-ACDC they seemed a little smaller (or the binnacles larger) and refused to conform and the fit was awful. Ah well.Also, a section needed to be cut out from the rear of each fuselage to fit a fillet piece later. To do this I drilled a fine hole in each corner and then made a series of shallow cuts with a #11 blade until cut through and tidied up with an emery board.The pic below looks shocking (lots of scraped areas for the glue) and shows things before joining together but they looked better than this to my eye and they’ll look fine once assembled./media/tinymce_upload/e15ac2056c0a8c0f7e255e1b3aac553b.jpgAfter the fuselage halves were joined up the extra fillet piece needed to be assembled and fitted. It’s not the easiest thing to do and get a good fit and a decent amount of filler was needed to tidy things up./media/tinymce_upload/0bbdf3a7c15466637e6d71c698db9c66.jpgWhile things were drying I started on the nose cone and propeller assemblies. I honestly think the kit designers have a competition to see who can create the smallest part in each kit. The person doing this one takes the cake for this! Really! – couldn’t this have been moulded in? /media/tinymce_upload/84181f9e6232f89adbd9bc9f0e5d7560.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/600ef8a406015190712960e4955b5f3f.jpgAnyhow, the finished assemblies turned out okay and will be put aside for fitting toward the end of the build, rather than at this point as per the instructions, for reasons that will become apparent later. Oh yeah, got the props to spin freely as a bonus!/media/tinymce_upload/93c7b4189b3986ddeb5f467334278ec4.jpgI also wanted to pre-paint up all the delicate spars and braces while I was waiting and had to do repairs on a few that were bit dodgy. The pic below shows some flash (which was all over these bits) on the left. This stay snapped in one place as soon as I attempted to remove it. I left it as it was and applied a drop of cement to each side hoping it will weld itself back together – time will tell. The stay on the right had the same problem but with this one a whole section broke out. Bugger!/media/tinymce_upload/db58996312c451b3ca116ec9a013958a.jpgI decided to cut the two remaining stubs off at the bases and made a whole new section from some stretched sprue and carefully glued in place. Repaired part shown below - hopefully once fully cured these repairs will be strong enough./media/tinymce_upload/7315ec5b4496294e9190fd36791f8031.jpgNow while I’m waiting for all this to set I’ll look at masking up the wings and fuselages and get them painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth ONeill Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Urggle!!Also, am I remembering correctly that XL-717 is stated as being based at Abbotsinch (now Glasgow airport)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2B Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Thought you were taking a rest after your big Lanc? But I tend to do that, straight on with the next build! And a different challenge doing the 2 Moths but having seen your skills develop over the past few months you will do OK! And the same thing happened to me, I was handling my Swordfish build a couple of weeks ago, trying to hold it gently when gravity took over! Fortunately the damage wasn't terminal - phew!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Urggle!!Also, am I remembering correctly that XL-717 is stated as being based at Abbotsinch (now Glasgow airport)?Not quite sure what 'Urggle' means. 😀 But according to the info I found it was indeed at Abbotsinch but states "Used by the Lossiemouth SF for glider towing etc. Retired in 1972 and now exhibited as "G-ABUL" at FAAM Yeovilton." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 Thought you were taking a rest after your big Lanc? But I tend to do that, straight on with the next build! And a different challenge doing the 2 Moths but having seen your skills develop over the past few months you will do OK! And the same thing happened to me, I was handling my Swordfish build a couple of weeks ago, trying to hold it gently when gravity took over! Fortunately the damage wasn't terminal - phew!!I know! I think I have an addiction. 😳 Yep, gravity sucks. But when looking for pics I found this one - maybe I can make a diorama based on this with my broken model. 😀/media/tinymce_upload/ba426e018b1c0e777dc8b05bced52e0e.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/aa748c02938128356af48ca3d3a462f2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Symmons Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Hi Jeff.I had a simular problem of trying to hold a model securely when rigging a Roden Bristol Fighter FB2 recently. I came up with the following solution. Fill a 500grm plastic (or glass) container with water then firmly screw top top back on. Mount the model on the lid with Blue Tak or simular, just don't be shy with the blue tak. The model is the held quite securely, and can then easily be repossitioned as required. the blue tack doesn't pull ff the paint when removed. I've since used this several times and not only for rigging but sometimes it's nice to have the model held firmly while assembling small bits to it. I've also had small bits break when trying to remove them from the sprue. Now as a matter-of-couse I and cut as much of the sprue away before finally cutting the part from the sprue, doesn't always work but it does help. Why is it that manufactures seem to put loads of sprue gates on the smallest and finest parts often making it almost impossible to remove the part without breaking it; Airfix and Roden seem to be guilty of this. Hope this helps and I'll keep in mind your experience when I finally get around to making my Tiger Moth. Below is some photos of my stand holding an old Walrus model waiting for some new wing struts. And in case your wondering why it yellow i was trying to do a racing Walrus. Yes you read right an air racing Walrus? Yes! and it or not but it won. Now there's something for you to Google. /media/tinymce_upload/d7a0afc9fbf28d14a2b3b5a8419bdfcf.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/b3b92b2c47dfc380ff096ecd20bc2cc1.jpg Remember we do this for fun John the Pom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth ONeill Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Urggle!!Also, am I remembering correctly that XL-717 is stated as being based at Abbotsinch (now Glasgow airport)?Not quite sure what 'Urggle' means. 😀 But according to the info I found it was indeed at Abbotsinch but states "Used by the Lossiemouth SF for glider towing etc. Retired in 1972 and now exhibited as "G-ABUL" at FAAM Yeovilton."Cheers.Also "urggle" is a choked sound, referring to the broken strut mouldings in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2B Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 @ Aussie Jeff. Yes my better half thinks my modelling is an addiction too, depending on a work day or not I can spend a couple of hours or more a day in my modelling cave. But better than watching rubbish on TV even with hundreds of channels to choice from lol!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Below is some photos of my stand holding an old Walrus model waiting for some new wing struts. And in case your wondering why it yellow i was trying to do a racing Walrus. Yes you read right an air racing Walrus? Yes! and it or not but it won. Now there's something for you to Google.Remember we do this for fun John the PomThanks for the tips John. BTW - that is not the most attractive aircraft I've seen. Walrus is an appropriate name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 As I wanted to put in the rudder control cables I had to deviate from the build sequence and fit the tailplane components at this stage. Also everything had to be painted and decaled as the wire would get in the way later. I’m experimenting with some multi-strand wire I salvaged from a 12V light fitting as each strand is as fine as the monofilament I had been using. /media/tinymce_upload/ec3c6286f401f35cad1a712b051eff78.jpgA single hole was drilled through the rudder, as close as possible to the moulded control tab, and two holes each side of the fuselage just above the rear of the lower wing joint. Two strands were threaded through the rudder and then through the holes in the fuselage. These were then tensioned as best I could and twisted together to take up any remaining slack. I think the wire is far too heavy a gauge for these control cables but should be fine for the rigging but I haven’t convinced myself this wire idea was a good one.As an extra precaution to secure these wires I decided to fit the lower wings. For G-ACDC this was no problem as the wing is painted silver only, so I can do this later. However XL-717 has a yellow band on both top and bottom wings and positions need to be matched up. I taped the two wings together with the approximate stagger and the applied the masking tape all the way around allowing me to paint the band on the top surface of the upper wing and the bottom surface of the lower wing. Once I was happy with the paint finish the masking was removed and the wings separated. It was then just a simple matter of masking up the other surfaces using the existing painted areas as a guide. This did work well!From the pics below I think the wire is more successful on XL-717 as it is not as conspicuous against the silver paint vs the gloss red. I think the rigging is going to pose a real challenge. Anywho, it is what it is./media/tinymce_upload/cccfd2b5f75c233d729e412385864dd6.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/e54f9216ad7538fec88b9e51ab1db030.jpgOnwards and upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweezers Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Thanks for sharing your experience of building the Moth. Useful for when I find out what FTS finish looked like and I'll begin. I may well use a knife tip in a candle flame for tricky parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Good to see these being built. My next build might just be the Moth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter s Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I'm with T2B. 2hrs modelling is far better use of time than 99.9999% of what's on tv. The struts above the engine on these kits are insanely delicate. I've never got a full set off unbroken although I've always cemented them back again easily. The moth is just a little too small for me. I can thoroughly recommend the swordfish and new tool gladiator though.As a birthday present to me I treated myself to a 15 min moth flight a few years ago. Instructor said I did really well but that plane didn't like me. The torque from the engine plus wind at 1000 feet kept trying to roll it upside down. Like a fool i thought a primary trainer would be easy... It's a plane to weed out those who shouldn't be allowed near a spitfire. When I'm on my laptop I'll post a couple of real pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Well, they say you learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes - if that's true I learnt a hell of a lot before I finally got G-ACDC rigged! The wire idea was a complete failure and only the outer wing braces and cockpit bracing remain from that experiment, and only because it was too difficult to remove and replace. And maybe, just maybe, I should have picked a larger model for my first attempt at biplane rigging.Just so you can share my trauma here's a couple of pics before nearly throwing it at a wall ("Remember, we do this for fun" - thank you John. 😀)/media/tinymce_upload/f19807aeaf74b78eb1fdcfb9d2885ed6.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/080ff6cc54d475c0b95264cbdb4240f9.jpgSo it was back to the monofilament for take two. I figured I was overthinking the issue and just tried simplifying things and got very dexterous at tying knots with tweezers. Things broke along the way (again) and there is a lot of touch-ups to do but I think the images below show the rewards of my patience./media/tinymce_upload/1c694948b5535662d57e096fddacf867.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/3f98f73dc59b3ff43837063db60e2853.jpgNow I have to do it all over again for XL-717! Anyone know a good shrink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 I'm with T2B. 2hrs modelling is far better use of time than 99.9999% of what's on tv. The struts above the engine on these kits are insanely delicate. I've never got a full set off unbroken although I've always cemented them back again easily. The moth is just a little too small for me. I can thoroughly recommend the swordfish and new tool gladiator though.As a birthday present to me I treated myself to a 15 min moth flight a few years ago. Instructor said I did really well but that plane didn't like me. The torque from the engine plus wind at 1000 feet kept trying to roll it upside down. Like a fool i thought a primary trainer would be easy... It's a plane to weed out those who shouldn't be allowed near a spitfire. When I'm on my laptop I'll post a couple of real picsGood story Peter - the only thing I've had a go at flying was a glider. No torque to worry about there! I was looking at the Swordfish as it had a similar silver/yellow scheme- maybe I should have started with that. And I believe the Gladiator has markers for where the rigging goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2B Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Yes rigging is a trial of patience. My Swordfish was my first attempt at rigging and constructed the 2 inner wing surfaces with the struts to feed through and glue the rigging lines then assembling the outer wing surfaces to hide the mess of wires and glue inside the wings. It does have most of the rigging points/markers but no rigging diagram in the instructions. I did the control cables aswell on the wings but not the fuselage to tail, but wish I had now ☹️. And if memory serves me, I think the Gladiator does include a rigging diagram as part of the destructions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth ONeill Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Well, Jeff, you've made a better job of rigging than I ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Well, Jeff, you've made a better job of rigging than I ever have.Thanks Paws - let's hope I can do even better on XL-717. Secret weapon - have some EZ Line coming in the post. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 Just going a bit off tack here but a few of you have mentioned the Swordfish and I might give that a go. I see it has folding wings as an option. Can it be built with one wing folded only? Thought it might look interesting/different if it could - sort of like it was being prepared for flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2B Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Yes Jeff, the Swordfish can be built with 1 wing folded if you desire? And it is a truly excellent kit but not for the beginner! I built mine with folded wings and did a build thread on it with a couple of photos of the instructions showing the wing construction options if you care to have a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Back to XL-717 and the rigging. I was quite happy with the result of G-ACDC's rigging but I could see room for improvement (there is ALWAYS room for improvement) - so more googling for ideas. This is an adaptation/combination of ideas from various sources - wire eyelets.Using fine wire (like what I had on hand) bend it over a fine drill in your pin vice and carefully twist until quite tight - too loose and the eye will be too large, too tight and the wire will snap. Pre-drill a suitably sized hole in your model (you could probably do all these in advance) where the rigging is to come from/to. Trim off the excess wire with a craft knife/scalpel blade an holding the eye with tweezers dip the twisted strands in CA and insert through the hole, align and allow to cure. Trim of any excess protruding through the model (on thicker areas you probably wouldn't even need to go all the way through) with sprue cutters or craft knife nice and flush and then file smooth. You then have a really strongly bonded eyelet that you can thread your rigging material through. Below are pics of the process./media/tinymce_upload/be4a4cb5abb1dc9630a4440925821620.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/b66de22fd6634f916c14ebb2a47138e0.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/857fe5fd0112dffff6481e41894f2a4b.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/72035d57b3a2b1647c079a5dc6941359.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/48c243574141cec733bece01062bd165.jpgHad I thought of this earlier (not an original idea mind you) all the attachment points could have been pre-installed which I think (hope) would make the whole rigging process easier. Let's see what happens as I progress with XL-717. And if anyone has comments on this, good or bad, I'd love to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 New and improved eyelet making tool. Makes these eyelets in seconds!/media/tinymce_upload/19a4417a78f8d88562f02c582d17cf66.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth ONeill Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 OK Jeff:-I've never seen anyone actually describe how to make eyelets like these for rigging attachments before! 😎Also ref your query about the Swordfish, the wings were struck and unstruck manually, so one struck and one unstruck will have happened regularly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 The build is coming along at a cracking pace and so far no real disasters. The eyelet thing has been a real success. Here's some pics of the assembly of the top wing and mating up to the lower wing./media/tinymce_upload/202122453f19dbb71343a9e636449b9b.jpgFor the centre section bracing I cut slot on the sides of the part that gets glued in place and passed the monofilament underneath - the other ends will be fed through pre-drilled holes in the fuselage just ahead of the screens. I deliberately canted the centre struts slightly inwards so it would apply some positive force when cemented to the fuselage (no need to clamp)./media/tinymce_upload/f64cddee0453ecf7413ceb51342bf55b.jpgBelow are the incidence bracing wires that get fitted to the main wing struts. I drilled a hole through the wing where the struts fit, fed the wires through and then cemented the struts in place and allowed to fully cure. it is the possible to adjust the centre of the bracing wires later. The fully assembled top wing follows./media/tinymce_upload/3235a4cb75aa88d9e5ae26ed9f70e0fb.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/0a5987bad0fdca009778ade3fcb344a4.jpgThis is then very carefully joined to the main assembly after feeding the wires/monofilament though the appropriate holes gradually taking up the slack. As you can see this is why I didn't fit the nose cone earlier - makes tensioning the centre bracing cables much easier./media/tinymce_upload/dbacb1d459ac27db69b3d9d61e8f4f81.jpgOnce the centre strut cement points had cured the lower points of the wing struts were matched up to the holes in the bottom wing, glued and the two wings taped together until fully set./media/tinymce_upload/c75178915b5b24257adfa004f918d4c6.jpgI reckon my next post will show XL-717 fully complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jeff Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 OK Jeff:-I've never seen anyone actually describe how to make eyelets like these for rigging attachments before! 😎Also ref your query about the Swordfish, the wings were struck and unstruck manually, so one struck and one unstruck will have happened regularly!The new tool is a cracker - its just the loop of a fishing swivel, held in the pin vice, with a small section cut out so you can slip the wire in/out easily. Bend the wire over the loop, pull taut and twirl the pin vice. Eyelets made in seconds, and they are very consistent! I reckon it'll come in handy for the Swordfish - and thanks for the advice on the wings. I reckon it could look interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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