Hornby tipper and conveyor not working after either an upgrade or moving to two controllers and using controller B.

[Ducky1]

Hi

I had the tipper and conveyor working previously but have not used them for some time. In the meantime i have updated railmaster a number of times (now on v1.74.5). Also i have added a second controller and so the tipper and conveyor work of controller B.

The tipper and conveyor both work ok from the Elite which is controller B but do not work from railmaster.

Before i contact railmaster can anybody confirm or dispute whether they have a tipper or a conveyor either working on controller A or B and in v1.74.

[96RAF]

Controller B is generally used for points and signals. Controller A is used for locos, TTs, etc into which category Tippers and Conveyors fall if DCC controlled via a loco decoder.

If no decoder fitted how have you got them connected and have you got them configured in the .ini file.

[P-Henny]

In the Railmaster Track Plan configuration screen, 'right click' your tipper icon (assuming you have placed one on the plan). If the dialogue box that opens does not specifically give a Controller B option to select, then the tipper can ONLY work when connected to Controller A. Controller B can only operate Accessory Decoders and not Loco motor control decoder ones. But even if you connect the Accessory Decoders to Controller B, you still have to tell Railmaster to use Controller B for each configured accessory screen icon. Hence the Controller A or B selection choice in the 'right click' dialogue box for points and signal track plan screen icons. Hence the question 'does your RM tipper icon give a similar controller A or B selection choice?'. If there is no controller choice in the dialogue box, then you will have to connect the decoder (whether that be an Accessory or Loco motor control decoder) you are using for the tipper to Controller A.

Just as an aside. You say that the Elite is controller B, so what is controller A?. If it is an eLink then it is more normal to have the Elite as A and the eLink as B.

[Ducky1]

They both have decoders fitted and have worked in railmaster previously with only one controller.

They both work ok from the Elite.

The pop-up box in the layout window gives the option to use controller A or B.

The ini file entry is :-

Tipper speed=80

Tipper timer=48

Conveyor speed=65

Controller A is an eLnk

I am using the Elite for accessories so that i can control them away from the PC while trains are running.

Ducky

[96RAF]

They will work from a single controller as the remit for that is locos and accessories. Accessories meaning devices operated from an accessory decoder not a loco decoder. Your accessories are actually being operated as locos.

The reason being the DCC command string for a loco is different to that for an accessory.

Controller B is configured to send acc commands by RM, not loco commands, regardless of the fact the Elite stand alone will operate them as it by-passes RM. When you send a loco command to an acc bus the Elite sends the correct format string.

RM simply uses the attached controller as a transmitter to send RM commands to the track or acc bus. It will only send acc commands out of Controller B and loco commands out of Controller A.

[P-Henny]

The pop-up box in the layout window gives the option to use controller A or B.

 

 

You haven't said, but I assume that controller B is the selected option.

Can you please clarify what type of decoder you are using. Accessory type or motor control loco type.

If it is a Loco motor control type, then RM can only send motor control commands to Controller A and the A or B selection (B option) is only there if the tipper is connected instead to an Accessory Decoder. Which looking at the tipper installation instructions indicates as being a valid option as the installation guide shows an option where the tipper is connected via a switch to the 'always on' output of a R965 Analogue controller. This would be similar to an Accessory Decoder output which is not a variable voltage output like a Loco decoder.

If you are using a Loco motor control decoder and you also have Controller B selected in the popup, then RM is not sending a command that is recognisable as being correct for the decoder and the decoder is ignoring the command. Accessory decoder data command packets and Loco data command packets are not the same. This is why you can have an Accessory and a Loco assigned the same DCC address.

If you are indeed using an Accessory Decoder (R8247?) and Controller B is selected, then you may have found a RM bug in the tipper code.

EDIT: 96RAF posted whilst I was preparing my reply. But we are both basically saying the same thing but in different ways.

[Ducky1]

Hi Raf

The only way to operate the tipper and conveyor on DCC is with a Loco decoder. As there was on option in the layout screen to use controller B I assumed it should work and railmaster was programmed to send the correct command. The only settings in the pop-up is to select the address and the controller. I will have to ask railmaster if controller B can be used.

Ducky

[96RAF]

As stated it can’t. RM is only sending acc commands to controller B. You can send loco commands from the Elite as you are one step further down the chain of command to the bus. The tipper has no idea which bus it is on just that it needs to listen for its address to react. RM will never send that command to that bus so it will never hear the shout, else you could control locos from either controller which you cannot.

[P-Henny]

And 96RAFs latest statement (which I concur with) reinforces my assessment of reading the manuals that using an Accessory Decoder R8247 could also be a valid option and hence would be a valid explanation for why a Controller B option is present in the popup.

I do however totally agree that using a Loco Decoder is the much preferred option because of the additional control it gives.

[96RAF]

Using the analogue acc decoder HM6010 as a comparison, which is an R8247 under the skin, one port (4) has been beefed up to output enough oomph to run a TT or other motor driven accessory. The only option available is On-Off so no speed control, just clockwise uni-directional go/no go.

You could set up an R8247 to give always on bi-directional control but you would have to stick within the feeble amperage available (240mA max from memory) or you could rig it using a relay.

[Ducky1]

Hi

Thanks for the help and info.

I didn't think of the accessory decoder option (very limited, only full speed)

I will have to crawl under the layout and change them to controller A.

Ducky

PS All working now. Thanks.

[Ducky1]

As an afterthought the tipper and conveyor icons do not know if it is a loco decoder fitted or an accessory decoder. It only knows an id and a controller. Therefore it must always send a loco address so controller B will never work unless selecting controller B sends a accessory decoder address. Also controller A will not work with an accessory decoder.

Ducky

[96RAF]

Controller B only sends acc strings. Controller A can send both even if there are two controllers in use. What it sends is dependent upon the attached device configuration, i.e. if an acc is configured as a loco then it sends a loco string, if the device is an accessory (point or signal) controlled via an accessory decoder, then it sends an acc string to the acc decoder. What is hanging on the end of the acc decoder is dealt with by the output set for that port.

As an example, this is a screen grab from forum user Stingray's app that works just like RM (only better). Here we have 2 controllers in use, Controller 0 for locos and also the Train-Tech smart screen and Controller 1 for points and signals. The Smart screen uses fixed addresses for configuration.

[Ducky1]

Yes, but railmaster does not know. It must always send a loco address.

Response from railmaster.

"We'll check this and provide a fix for the next software release."

[96RAF]

We are still waiting for the last ‘big’ release for RM.