HM DCC

[taunmarc88]

I’ve just seen the HM DCC announcement and it mentions Bluetooth and new chips. I’ve not decided on how to go yet in terms of DC or DCC on my new layout but I’d love to know how people feel about it to help decide if this newer version would be a good idea.

I do feel a bit like it could be a bit Hornby centric but all my TT:120 locos are likely to be Hornby anyway, certainly for a time. I do have an old Hornby DCC controller knocking about so I would still have that to fall back on.

Lots to think about!

[TT-Man]

It looks like it might be a very interesting system and very cost effective for new modellers or a new layout.

I am a veteran DCC user and have had several different systems over the years. For a time I used the Z21 system which although much more expensive and needing a base station and wi-fi, has a similar smart device interface to the HM7000.

I found ultimately I didn't like the system for ergonomic reasons. Although I am very tech savvy, when operating trains I still like knobs and switches for control. There is something about the tactile nature of interacting with physical controls that I prefer even though I am completely committed to software control underlying it all and would never use a DC system.

I can completely see the appeal to the generation that have grown up using smart devices. I am just a victim of my era joy

[96RAF]

The main benefit of the App system is you only need the new decoders and a powered track, which can be either DCC or DC providing the latter is turned up at the controller or you can power the track directly from a PSU using the adapter harness.

If you already have DCC locos and a DCC controller with an Xpressnet port then you can control your legacy locos from the App by using the HM7040 dongle.

[Fredoxford-344906]

The feel of the Software is key here, if Hornby can produce fantastic Software this type of product has a good future. At the moment I would probably dabble with this system, I like others really do you like physical controls. It would be fantastic to be able to add a physical controll to your smartphone or tablet?

Microsoft do something similar with there expensive PC's I think?

But HM dcc? For £60 you get a sound decoder! Without the need for a dcc system.

Bargain way of getting into DCC.

But.... adding Bluetooth to DCC does complicate this technology?

I have ordered a HM dcc sound decoder though.

[Rallymatt]

This is certainly a very interesting concept and harnessing the power of a smartphone/tablet with a free app could really get a lot of people excited about model railways without the ‘Technobabble’ of DCC that can be quite intimidating to many.

Not going to be ditching my Dynamis just yet but will probably get the HM7000 app and a dongle when they appear and see how it goes. The sound decoders seem good value, is the sound generated in the device or does the loco still require a speaker?

[TT-Man]

The HM7000 chips still need a speaker fitted in the loco.

I used to have a large layout run with Train Controller Gold. One of the features I planned to try but never actually implemented was a sound system than didn't require any speakers in locos. Instead with Train Controller you can place speakers around your layout. As the Train Controller system tracks the actual location of the locos it can then send sound to the speakers with the volume adjusted to give the impression that the sound is coming from the loco and the sound moves as the loco moves. As massively larger hi-fi quality speakers can be used the potential for really impressive sound is possible.

[Forty Twa]

Is it compatible with HMDC 6000. Am not very tech savvy. Basically what am asking is what exactly do I need to get to have this system on my layout

[Fishmanoz]

HMDC can be used with HM DCC to provide the track power (turn it on and turn up the speed dial), then all you need is the App and a loco with one of the new decoders with Bluetooth to talk to the App. You don’t need a DCC controller to operate this way.

In fact, you can operate without any controller. All you need is a 15v DC supply. You can connect this to the track with the adaptor cable or any other way you like.

Or you can use an existing controller as the track supply. It can continue to control locos with older decoders at the same time as the App controls locos with new decoders

Or you can fit the dongle to an existing Hornby controller and now you can control all locos with old or new decoders via the App.

All this detail is on the HM DCC pages in the 2023 announcements.

[Forty Twa]

Thank you I understand now

[96RAF]

@42

If you have 6000 you can use it to power the tracks for 7000 decoders. If you have 6010s controlling your accessories (points or signals, etc) you can control these from the App.

@TT-man

Treat 7000 decoders the same as any other sound decoder. The 21-pin decoders can use a plug in speaker (supplied with the decoder) or a speaker built into the loco and wired to the main PCB, hence to the decoder socket. Ditto Next 18, but 8-pin versions will only use the plug in speaker, similar to how the TTS speaker was wired to the decoder.

[Fredoxford-344906]

I am definitely into DCC but explaining all of this is not easy, listen to Simon!

[Fishmanoz]

Simplest explanation;

New HM 7000 DCC system with free Bluetooth App to program and control your locos, or you can control the new decoders with your existing DCC controller.

To provide power, you can use your existing controller if you have one, DC or DCC, or you can use any 15v DC supply and not have any physical controller at all.

[BritInVanCA]

A couple of questions.

I see the TT train sets have a DCC option now? Is that a HM/DCC Bluetooth Chip?

What firmware release do you need on the Select to run HM/DCC with the Bluetooth adaptor dongle?

[Rallymatt]

I was all in for trying this but sadly my Dynamis IR DCC unit does not have an ExPressNet port, others but not the one the dongle fits so sadly I’m not going to play just yet. I still think this a tremendous game changer though, Hornby could just have pulled off the biggest model Railway Coup of the decade!

[96RAF]

The new decoder range sound and non sound is all bluetooth. TT:120 locos will mostly be Next 18 except the tiny 08 which is a 6-pin, so not sound capable without a bit of adaptive engineering to get a N18 or 8-pin sound in there, but I am assured by Hornby the CAD guys couldn’t do it.

Select rev1.5 minimum to be able to control all new decoder functions and rev1.6 to have CV writing ability, even though this is not available via the App and dongle for legacy decoders, you may need to adjust certain CVs as usual.

[david_watts1]

Forgive me for been simple but:

1: Am I correct in thinking the new TT120 sound fitted locos will have the 7000 bluetooth chips.

2: The track is actually powered with 15v DC and NOT the standard AC current?

[Fishmanoz]

Yes, and yes. You will be able to use the controller PSU without the controller itself if you wish. This may obviate the controller tripping out.

[david_watts1]

@Fishmanoz, Thanks for the reply. I'm currently using a Gaugemaster DS unit. I'm not running my precious trains with the 'thing' that comes supplied.

[Michael_A]

I saw a video which implied you can only have sound if using a DCC controller. I thought the whole point was to control via Bluetooth using a standard power supply?

[david_watts1]

Just thinking about the new sound fitted sets that are coming. Since DCC controllers are expensive does this mean you only get a power supply that is 15v AC and have to use the app to make the trains work.

[Fishmanoz]

Michael, not true re needing a DCC controller. Full sound control via Bluetooth and the App.

David, you won’t get a physical DCC controller, you’ll get the same DC controller/thing and the App. Simon K told me this via email last year and I didn’t understand at the time, now I do.

Nowhere does it say you can use 15v AC although I suspect you can given the decoder bridge rectifier will turn it into DC to power the decoder, but at less than 15v so maybe at less than full speed (there’s a threshold DC volts required by the decoder to operate but what that is hasn’t been published).

[david_watts1]

I'm sure the video says sound only works with DCC ie an alternating current.

[Fishmanoz]

Again, no, look at this - https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/video-hammant-and-morgan-hm7000-what-is-it?fbclid=IwAR1hDU4JLhR0_53QBn64ZO_-De0C-FYp7s75IPIckWeKHxAQ7CGUJyAr8pU

[david_watts1]

The clips for adding to points to make them DCC, TT8035, just how many do you get in a packet?

[Shunter77]

I have no prior experience of DCC and I am getting a little confused by what I have seen and read about this new system. I am returning to the hobby after early retirement and the timing of the system is therefore ideal, it is not a case of adapting what I have but starting from scratch. I have bought the DC Scotsman set and am really impressed.

So the questions I have are-

1, Assuming that the layout is a simple 2 ovals with a few sidings am I correct in assuming that all I need to do as far as wiring is concerned is have a single connection from power to rails and then use the point clips to pass the power to the rest of the layout? Or do you need to have separate connections from the power source to each oval?

2, I have seen that you can simply use a 15v power supply plus adapter cable as the power source, would that be sufficient for my needs. I appreciate the power supply with the set is pretty basic and may not be able to provide the power output required for this system certainly beyond using it with a single locomotive.

3, Assuming that my points in 1 and 2 are the way to set things up, this then means that I don't need the mass of wiring that I associate with DCC and the need to have significant numbers of connections between the trackwork and controller.

4, Obviously Blink Boney will need a chip added but I assume that the future DCC locomotives will be compatible so if I go along this line then it would be easier to purchase the versions with the chip fitted rather than do so myself.

I should perhaps add that I do have larger scale plans in the future but want to stick to something simply initially whilst developing the skills I need for it, and which I will then use as a test track and somewhere to run trains whilst working on the larger project.

Thanks