HM6010 with MP1 point motors?

[Barry-350851]

Could the HM6010 work MP1 servo point motors? Being that the motors auto stop by themselves and the throw is set by adjusting the physical cams on the motor, all that is needed is a 3-wire power supply.

If the HM6010 was set to output as though it was powering a colour light signal, would it work on the MP1 motors please?

[P-Henny]

I couldn't find an online PDF manual for the MP1, but I did find a YT video uploaded by DCC Trains Automation (a distributor of the MP1).

The key things from that video SUGGEST that the HM6010 configured for 'always on' (signals) would operate the MP1. The MP1 works with 'common positive' and 'switched negatives' which is the default mode for the HM6010 port outputs.

Although the MP1 is a servo, it generates the necessary servo drive control pulses internally and therefore operates by inputting pure DC as the control switching condition. The DC voltage input range on the MP1 is 9 to 14 volts, again this is within the spec of the HM6010 output.

The input to the MP1 needs to be 'always on' and not a pulse. The MP1 servo motor requires a supply current of 150mA from the HM6010, the current output of the HM6010 needs to be confirmed. If 96RAF reads this he can confirm or not as the case may be.

Since I could not find a downloadable manual for the MP1, I can not guarantee that my assessment is correct, but in principle it does seem to be the case, subject to the confirmation that a current of 150mA is available on the HM6010 'always on' port.

EDIT - UPDATE.

I have found the HM6010 tech specs in the Hornby support area. The specs are for ports 1 - 3 having a max 'always on' current of 140mA and port 4 at 500mA.

Therefore the suitability of the MP1 to be used with a HM6010 depends upon if the 150mA quoted in the MP1 specs includes a safety margin overhead. On paper this is too close to call. Even if the MP1 operated at 140mA, the current drain might be continuious and could potentially put strain on the HM6010 if all four ports where being used at 140mA+. Therefore, I now suggest that it would be unadvisable to use the HM6010 with MP1s, unless 'soak tested' first with the risk that the HM6010 fails.

Note 'soak testing' means setting up an HM6010 with 4 x MP1s attached and powered up and then left powered continuiously for say 24 hours to see if they survive. An expensive test, if it fails.

Note that the MP1 spec says it draws 150mA when it is being operated. It may be that once operated the 'quiescent' holding current is much less. This could be confirmed by asking 'DCC Trains Automation' the question. If the 150mA is just a short term peak and the 'quiescent current' much less, then you might get away with it, but again subject to a 'soak test'.

[Barry-350851]

Thank you Paul.

The manufacturer is MTB in the Czech Republic. https://www.mtb-model.com/pages/mp1.php?lang=en

There is an instruction sheet on the website at http://www.mtb-model.com/files/produkty/MP1-setup_CZ_EN_DE.pdf

From the manufacturer's site "Both DC and AC power supplies are suitable, with a current consumption aprox 150 mA during motion. The mechanism has a end of travel detection switch, i.e. the control voltage can be applied permanently, to be disconnected automatically once a respective position is reached and the motion stops."

Also "Connect to the COM+ terminal with DC powersupply. The F1 contact will close once the movement ends up at the Position 1 (or the Position 2 in case of the F2 contact respectively)"

That suggests the ~150mA is only for the approximately 2 seconds that the motor operates and then is completely shut off. I have one on the way as an experiment which I'll set up off a SPDT switch but I can also test the current drain with the multimeter. I'll come back with the result once I have tested the MP1.

I haven't bought a HM6010, it sounds like it might be down to luck if the MP1 doesn't quite draw the full 150mA and the HM6010 has a bit of overhead but no guarantee.

[96RAF]

@Paul asked me to comment.

Fortunately I have a draft of the forthcoming combined R8247 v2.0 PAD - (Point and Accessory Decoder) and HM6010 PAC - (Point and Accessory Controller) user manual to hand.

The following are extracts from the associated port voltage and current limit specifications, noting the difference twixt PAD and PAC.

[P-Henny]

That suggests the ~150mA is only for the approximately 2 seconds that the motor operates and then is completely shut off.

 

 

Performing some tests with a sample MP1 point motor sounds like a plan.

Updated my original reply to show 'DCC Trains Automation' as a Distributor rather than the Manufacturer & Thank you 96RAF for the port current confirmation.

[Barry-350851]

Thank you, I'll still confirm what I find on the current draw but it doesn't look good.

[Barry-350851]

Motor arrived this morning. After fiddling about and testing up to the maximum of my GM controller (just shy of 13v). It was going above 130mA in single runs but not hitting 140mA.

I discovered that it won't move the other way until it has reached the end of its travel so I connected both switched negatives together and tested with it shuttling continuously. In that form it didn't draw more than 120mA at 13v.

It operated right down to just over 6v where it drew less than 90mA shuttling.

I get a reading of 0mA when it has stopped.

[P-Henny]

Since it appears to only draw over 100mA when actually moving and even then only as much as 130mA+. Then it should be OK to use with the HM6010 ports 1 to 3 at max 140mA. After all, it is not as if the point motors will be in constant motion.

[Fishmanoz]

Rob, you might like to take a good look at the HM6010 section you’ve included and comment on:

• the maths at the end of the first sentence doesn’t seem to add up - it is not 500mA plus a multiple of 140mA. Should it be?
• the Special Mode section is clear in itself but seems to conflict with the current limits? And what defines a channel please?

Barry, dependent on Rob’s answer, it looks like you may have limitations on what points you can operate at the same time.

[P-Henny]

Just a suggestion.

The output of the HM6010 is nearer 14 volts than 12 to 13 volts. Using your 120mA @ 13 volts measurement. I have Ohms Law calculated that if you add a 10 ohm @ 0.5 Watt resistor in series with the common return lead between the HM6010 and the MP1 then the current when using the HM6010 should reduce to slightly under 130mA and the voltage across the MP1 when being operated (moving) should then be somewhere between 12 and 13 volts.

[96RAF]

Rob, you might like to take a good look at the HM6010 section you’ve included and comment on:

• the maths at the end of the first sentence doesn’t seem to add up - it is not 500mA plus a multiple of 140mA. Should it be?
• the Special Mode section is clear in itself but seems to conflict with the current limits? And what defines a channel please?

Barry, dependent on Rob’s answer, it looks like you may have limitations on what points you can operate at the same time.

 

 

Agreed Fishy - it should be (3x140) + 500 - therefore it looks like that should be max 920mA. I will check with Hornby.

A channel is 1, 2, 3 or 4 and a port is the left/right output of that channel, hence when both ports of a channel are being output together in special mode the channel current is shared.

[Fishmanoz]

Thanks Rob.