Too many locos in RailMaster resetting functions

[gilbo2]

Following a "lucky boy" Christmas I've added further locos to RailMaster. All are fitted with HM7000 decoders although that is not relevant to this issue to be honest.

The problem I had is that when two (or more) locos have functions switched on, every time I try to control another with a shunt/cruise/stop command, all its functions, e.g. lights / AFC etc, get reset even though they are still green in RailMaster. A right pain!

After many hours of research and testing on this, I've eventually managed to resolve the problem going back to a forum thread from 2017 and information from the late great Chrissaf.

Original thread for reference: RailMaster Loco Limit

In summary, RailMaster does not seem to like it when the database has more than 64 locos, unless split up into smaller groups of less than this. One of the smaller groups must also be selected when RM was previously closed, otherwise it doesn't work. The original thread didn't mention Functions but loco control issues, in my case loco control worked but Functions got messed up. Maybe there was attempt to fix this all this in 1.74 rev5 but only partially resolved it?

What is also essential is that once the problem has occurred, Elite MUST be power cycled as restarting just RailMaster doesn't clear the problem, even if you have selected the smaller group! Took ages to work that one out!

After spending so long on this I thought I would post an updated thread to help others who end up in the same boat.

(I've only tested this with an Elite, so not sure if relevant to eLink, but suspect it will be).

[Fishmanoz]

The need to establish groups when you have over 64 locos has been discussed at length across a number of topics previously.

[96RAF]

Power cycling the controller after selecting a group is much the same as selecting the group before closing RM down.

[gilbo2]

Power cycling the controller after selecting a group is much the same as selecting the group before closing RM down.

 

 

I could be splitting hairs here so apologies. In my experience, once Elite has had the described problems with Functions, even restarting RM with a group didn't clear the problem. It needed a power cycle and a restart with a group to start working again. Interestingly, once Elite starts to behave after a power cycle, it will continue to work fine even with just a RM reboot and no grouping! Its as though the very first comms from RM to Elite after a power cycle sets it up for that session (to work or fail), no matter how many times RM is rebooted.

[96RAF]

Interesting Gilbo2, maybe either the Elite or RM are going into their dotage, as we seem to be seeing odd problems cropping up.

[gilbo2]

......(I've only tested this with an Elite, so not sure if relevant to eLink, but suspect it will be).

 

 

Sorry Fishy, I know you don't like old topics being re-discussed but I believe this is fitting together more pieces to the RM jigsaw wink

I've been going through my notes back to 2013 as I used eLink until summer 2023, when I decided to changeover to the Elite due to the direction of HM7000.

My loco roster under eLink was +80 locos and I had no issues until anomalies started to creep in when I changed to Elite, which I now know is resolved by grouping. But why was it working under eLink without grouping?

I then remembered doing some beta testing in 2014 for HRMS because I was starting to have performance issues with eLink. After testing, it was concluded that my roster worked fine providing I deleted some locos. Unknown at the time about the grouping work around, the magic loco number that triggered problems was 63!!! All now sounds familiar!!

However, to fix the issue at the time, I beta tested for HRMS a "new" ini setting, "Reset eLink on start=2". (reference to a 2014 V1.57 thread Reset eLink )

I am now confident from my own eLink experience from 2014 to 2023, that this overcomes the large, +63, roster issues without having to Group. This reset option "2" remains undocumented but is still working in RM today. Its downside is it doubles initialisation as it forces a software equivalent of a power cycle on the eLink (you notice track power is cut for a few seconds).

Hence my dejarvu I had with my Elite issues today and the power cycling observation. The question is, is there an equivalent undocumented ini setting for Elite that does the same reset as eLink?

Conclusions:

1) For eLink, my findings show that "Reset eLink on start=2" avoids the need to Group.

2) Elite does need groups but is there a similar ini setting?

[96RAF]

Having been in on the Elite virtually from the start there is no remote software (.ini) switch to my knowledge that will reset the unit, it can only be done as a menu item.

interesting if the eLink is not subject to these boundaries.

[Fishmanoz]

Interesting post Gilbo and old thread dredging forgiven.

[St1ngr4y]

@gilbo2

That's a very interesting fact about "Reset eLink on start=2". I don't know if you were aware of this, but, when RM starts up, it sends out to the track bus, a few commands for each loco in your loco group, ensuring that for each loco, the speed is zero, and all of the functions are off. Further, as part of the DCC protocol, the controller for locos (whether Elite or eLink) will thereafter continuously send out commands for each loco it has so far encountered, repeating the current speed and current settings (off or on) for all functions.

I am wondering whether the "=2" setting causes the RM startup procedure to skip past sending out the initial commands for all locos in the group for the eLink, so that the output traffic to the track bus only grows in the number of locos whenever a new loco is selected during the current RM session. This would mean that the eLink might spend less time maintaining the output message traffic, or have more time to handle incoming commands from RM. Might also reduce the amount of memory used inside the controller itself.

Just a thought or two !

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

I have just carried out three startups of RM, each with a different setting for the .INI file parameter "Reset eLink on start". My normal setting has been =1, but then I tried =0, and I noticed no appreciable difference in the amount of time taken for the startup process. Finally, I tried =2, and this was the only setting which caused RM to physically reset the eLink.

It could be that =2 is designed to cause the eLink to clear the table of locos, so that the list only grows as a fresh loco is selected (in the current RM session).

I didn't have my Arduino DCC track monitor running for any of this, so I can't definitely confirm what is happening, however.

[gilbo2]

@St1ngr4y, no I didn't know any of that information, but it does make sense. If that is indeed what eLink does with a reset 2, I wonder if Elite can be made to do similar?

I have a feeling though that there would be no appetite to change anything, so groups it is?! wink

[96RAF]

I can definitely confirm that the Elite only has a manual reset either by way of a unit reset in Menus or a power cycle, noting that if you switch an Elite back on too quickly after power down it will bog down and require a slower restart.

You may/may not be aware Elite has 2 main processors but eLink only has one so the internal processing architecture is totally different. Add to that the eLink has no facility for a manual reset, it must be done thru' software.

[St1ngr4y]

I wonder what would happen if a “reset” command is sent to an Elite 🤔

Further to my earlier observation of the use of Value 2 as the parameter for the.INI file entry “Reset eLink on startup”, I noticed that the reset takes place after points have been set (if that option has been chosen). This might cause problems if there are electrofrog points controlled by ADS decoders. These decoders have an onboard latching relay which is used to switch the polarity of the points frog. However, these relays are held in one direction by the application of current but are switched to the other direction by a spring when power is removed. When the eLink is reset this might cause some points decoders to switch the frog polarity using the spring without the points themselves switching. The result would mean a short circuit would occur after the reset.

[St1ngr4y]

Just tried sending a reset command to an Elite, but nothing happened, so Elite firmware not setup to support a reset via XPressnet.

Ray

[gilbo2]

Just tried sending a reset command to an Elite, but nothing happened, so Elite firmware not setup to support a reset via XPressnet.

Ray

Interesting test, it does seem then with Elite, that Groups continues as the solution.

 

 

[gilbo2]

....... when RM starts up, it sends out to the track bus, a few commands for each loco in your loco group, ensuring that for each loco, the speed is zero, and all of the functions are off. Further, as part of the DCC protocol, the controller for locos (whether Elite or eLink) will thereafter continuously send out commands for each loco it has so far encountered, repeating the current speed and current settings (off or on) for all functions.......

That could also explain why I've observed the eLink/Elite response times getting more and more sluggish, the more locos I added. One loco in a group is lightening fast wink.