Unable to select Groups

[JWRStation]

OK I have read all the threads regarding Loco number's etc and believe this could be a new one as I cannot find the reference in the 'other' faults

Background - I have around 200 loco's in RM and as previous posts etc cover I have them in groups of between 10 and 40 locos depending upon the group name i.e. GWR, LMS Private etc. I select the group that I am currently running plus I also transfer them to the 'top' of the listing. This is more for easier access to change parameters then an absolute need. Note that I have been running the programme in this configuration for over five years without any problems!!!

Problem - Yesterday for no obvious reason and whilst running locos, RM defaulted to selecting 'ALL'. I did not notice this for a while given the note above regarding placing the running group at the 'top'. I want to change loco details and then got the error about displaying more than 172 in two column?? Wondering why it was on 'ALL' I tried to select my running group but it did not change, just went through the reload all routine. I then tried to select all the other groups one at a time with the same result.

Actions so far - After reading all the other posts I can find I have carried out multiple restarts, resets (Select 2 for the elink in the .ini file). I created another group but this one would also not select. I then deleted the groups file which removed the top RH selection box as expected (though it did not remove the group nomination from the loco details???). I then created another group and the selection box returned but still it would not select the new group and just defaulted to 'ALL' every time I tried.

Thoughts - I am assuming something has become 'corrupt' and therefore a program re-load could be required but I am loath to loose 200 loco settings but if needs must???

Thoughts and suggestion before I do this

Joe

[P-Henny]

Assuming you haven't got RailMaster PRO which has a backup feature. Then read FAQ8 in the 'Railmaster FAQ Index' pinned sticky thread. Create the FAQ8 documented batch file and run it.

This batch file will save all your loco and track plan data. To restore the data if you should end up reinstalling RM.

This of course assumes that none of the saved files contain the corruption. It would also be prudent to delete any saved .grp files and recreate them from new as these files seem to be crucial to your reported issue.

If you do reinstall RM then do not forget to deactivate the key first, else you will get reinstallation issues.

I would suggest that before doing the 'nuclear bomb' option above, that you start by just running the latest RM installer (downloaded from the forum download link pinned sticky) over the top of your current installation. Doing that should not affect your loco data and may possibly clear your corruption.

It might be worth using the inbuilt help feature to report your issue before potentially 'burning your bridges' with the 'nuclear' reinstall option. Plus if help communication is established then this will provide confirmation that deactivating & reactivating your key has a high chance of being successful. Plus, if HRMS can be persuaded to remotely log in to your RM installation they may be able to fix your issue more effectively & efficiently than you could DIY.

Look to see if there are any of your original files with a .bak extension. These backup files may contain uncorrupted data. Rename any original files to .old then rename the .bak files to their original extensions this could potentially (very long shot) replace corrupted files with good ones. This would have been a better action to do before you started deleting and creating files to try and resolve your issue, as good bak files may now have been overwritten with corrupted ones.

But note that any corruption may not actually be in the .grp files, it might be in the resource database file or any of the RM system files. An HRMS remote login has a better chance of a quick resolution as they will have a better idea of what files are relevant to your reported issue.

I would prioritise my suggestions in this order:

1. Create & run the FAQ8 batch file.
2. Run the latest installer over the top of the installation.
3. Use inbuilt Help system to request remote login by HRMS.
4. Renaming .bak files.
5. Reinstall as the very last resort if nothing else fixes it.

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Joe,

If by “ (Select 2 for the elink in the .ini file)” you mean “Reset elink on startup=2”, then I would try setting that value back to whatever it was before you changed it. It is an undocumented value, and it might have an effect on your group problem.

Ray

[JWRStation]

Hi

Thanks for the input and reference:

1. I have pro and thus have a backup of the data.
2. Reloading the latest version 'over the top' has had no effect
3. Old defunct e mail on my account so I am not sure the request has gone through.
4. Tried a number BAK files with no change.

I also don't have the option of a complete reload as I cannot de-register the software. I get a 505 failure saying my activation code is not recognised??? This is despite RM entered in my firewall and I have confirmed in real time that the firewall is letting information through.

[P-Henny]

If you cannot deactivate and the attempt to do so fails, then reactivation after reinstallation WILL also fail. The inability to deactivate properly (you get an error message) means that the inbuilt help request will probably also fail as well. Plus if your original registered email is now de-funct, then even if your inbuilt help request did go through, you won't see any replies regarding the instructions you need to see to initiate remote access as they will be sent to the registered de-funct email address.

In which case you are most likely stuffed.

The external HRMS email address is support@rail-master.com, but there are many instances reported on this forum that members with within program RM HRMS Server communication issues have problems getting two way communication via the external email address as well.

I would think that your best option would be to apply to join the free TGG trial group (see threads in the DCC forum) as TGG can import RM loco and track plan data files. Ray's TGG software is compatible with both eLink & Elite.

Ray is the same Ray who posted above in this thread.

[JWRStation]

Thanks for return. I will contact Hornby directly and get then to de-register it from their end checking that all is fine with my DVD and pro codes. I had to do this last time when my computer at the time trashed its hard drive in a big way so could not accessed by any method. Will also look at TGG as you note.

[P-Henny]

I will contact Hornby directly and get then to de-register it from their end .........

 

 

Do note that HRMS is not Hornby. HRMS is a completley independent software entity not in any way part of Hornby Hobbies. Hornby do not offer any direct support function with RM, it is all dealt with by HRMS who used to trade under the company name "Invicto Systems" that is now no longer trading.

I know this because my very first installation of RM had "Invicto Systems" branding on the 'splash' page and I researched it at the time.

[JWRStation]

Hopefully the help numbers still work. I have also discovered other problems in that a short circuit fault (loco derail) trips the e-link but i no longer get an error message on RM and in fact have to shut it down and start up again to get any loco control!!! A very, very poorly RM program on my machine now...

[P-Henny]

Any previously published telephone numbers you may have kept historically will be Hornby numbers. HRMS do not publish a telephone number, only email contact is supported by them. This has been a 'bone of contention' for years regarding HRMS.

Try this. Open the .ini file using the inbuilt .ini file editor. Delete these two lines:

• Alternative comms=n
• Check controller=n

Where n is either a 1 or 0

Then type them again with the same original n values (type, don't copy n paste) as the very last two lines in the .ini file even if they were already the last two lines in the file, save the file, close and restart RM and test your issues again.

Also before saving, check and make sure that 'Reset eLink on start=0' and not =1.

This fix may do nothing, but if you don't try it you will never know. It is the previously forum documented fix for getting the eLink short circuit error message to display when it doesn't.

[gilbo2]

Just a thought, have you by any chance just added further locos recently, 200 is impressive?

You could try making a backup of Resource.mdb (loco database), then delete a number of locos and seeing if things come back to normal. You could even rename it so RM starts fresh, add a couple of locos and see if things behave. Just restore your backup of Resource.mdb if making no difference.

This would point to the loco database if that is the issue.

BTW, when requesting help through RM, there is a different box to enter your current email address if it is different to what you registered with. They will then respond by that one.

[JWRStation]

Thanks ALL who have responded.

Having spent a while this morning going through options it has turned out to be the number of Loco's in the 'Resources' file however, that is not the whole picture. There seems to be two limits; the first is 172. If you have more than this in any group it will give a display error message though that's all it seems to be as nothing else particularly happens. This also displays if you have more than 172 loco's in total and you select 'ALL'. You can though still re-select any other group without any problem

HOWEVER, the next limit is when you have OVER 200 locos in the 'Resource' file. All appears well whilst you have any sub group selected and you can select any sub group you want BUT, if you then select 'ALL' you can no longer select any other sub group. Whilst they will up show up in the selection box and can be 'highlighted', if you click on any of them it just reloads 'ALL' again.

Two ways around this... Delete a few loco's and once down to 200 it magically all works again. Alternately, move the 'resource' file to a temp folder then restart RM. Acknowledge the file loading errors then re-select a group, close RM down, return the resource file, restart RM and all will be as it was.

I have checked the above ten times just to make sure (and also counted the number of Loco's!!) just to prove the options will work.

Finally, not sure I have the latest version of RM and so I am going now to see plus even with the ini file amends as suggested, the short error message is still not happening. I can live with that as I have an Ammeter connected to the E-link to monitor system load and thus can see it has tripped.

[P-Henny]

Finally, not sure I have the latest version of RM

 

 

The latest version is 1.74.5, the 1.74 should display in the bottom right. And 'Revision 5' should display when the mouse cursor is hovered over the version box.

It should also display 1.74.5 in the 'Right Click, Properties' option of the 'Railmaster.exe' file in Windows File Explorer.

Since you have identified the exact trigger for your groups issue, it would be worth reporting it to HRMS.

[JWRStation]

Thanks.. I have revision 5 and not sure about informing HRMS as when I click on the tick it just says incorrect email address and nothing seems to happen..

[Fishmanoz]

Wow, well figured JWR!

Can I take it you need the undocumented Reset eLink on startup=2 for those numbers?

And for future reference, a first action when RM is giving you problems is to check you have latest version loaded. Noting HRMS has been threatening to release two updates in short order.

[P-Henny]

@JWRS

ok_hand

[gilbo2]

Glad you are making progress. In terms of the short circuit message, have you checked under the spanner icon that it's still on eLink for controller A?

[JWRStation]

Hi

I used the reset =2 in regards to the lack of short circuit error message and the e-link is correctly selected but, as I said the lack of the short circuit error report (though an obvious bug somewhere) is of no real concern. I suppose that not too many users have a database of over 200 loco's so this should only affect a minority.

During this problematic episode I have been playing around with many of the files in RM so on an FYI note for those who monitor and assist in many areas of the Forum you may find the below interesting if you don't already know it that is..!!.

As previously observed, RM slows down the more loco's it has to deal with and with over 200 mine was starting to be slow opening etc. I can live with that but as I mention I always transfer the current active locos to the top to save time in editing as they are usually near the bottom of the list. As you know there does not appear to be a repeat function when highlighting the arrows to move up and down the list so with over 200 locos in the database it takes 200 clicks to move one up; with 30 in the group that is 6 thousand clicks of the button to carry this operation out. Additionally (and annoyingly) any new loco also comes in at the bottom so another 200 odd clicks to get it up to the top. There is a file in RM called 'resources' which is part of the backup; turns out it is basically the loco database whereas I thought it was much more. Though an old type of access database (really old!!!!) as long as you don't try and be clever with it and just open up in basic format it can be edited. I have nine groups and basically through many deleting and resaving sessions split it up into my nine nominated groups. Each was dropped into their own directory in my DCC folder so as to keep the correct name and ensure no accidental overwriting. I took one, dropped it into the Railmaster directory overwriting that file. Opened RM and sure enough only the loco's in that group came up when selected, all the other groups showed none available. RM was (relatively speaking) lightning fast in opening and also when selecting the loco list etc. Now would it work live or need to close down to change groups?? To try this and whilst running RM I dropped another groups file into the RM directory again overwriting. RM still showed the group previously selected however, selecting the new group caused the display to update then selecting the old group just showed a NO loco page as it should. From this RM appears to only access the 'resource' file when a change is requested and it takes the different details without it causing any conflicts. Adding loco's is now significantly quicker and all changes can be saved by copying the 'resource' file in RM to the relevant group directory and overwriting the old one (ONLY after RM is closed down as this is when a full update to the file is done). Additionally, when you first delete entries in the database to 'thin it down' it still displays the old file size in properties and the database entries still reflect there old position numbers however, once in RM and if you close RM down the file is updated with new (starting from one) database record listing and also reflects its correct new 'size' i.e. down from 2.6M down 250K for one of my groups. This last bit just some technical details. The only thing I have not managed to do is recombine groups again. Once deleted then sections of one groups database will not carry over to another groups database. I think it is because you must NOT update the database into a modern format and access thus only has basic functionality

Finally, just a small one but my group listing was not in the order I required and I found that it could be amended by opening with Notepad then resaving. probably all know that one anyway)!!!!

[Britannia Builder]

Hi Joe

It's interesting that you were able to read and modify the resource.mdb Access database. When I open it with my ancient 2002 version of Access it says that it was created in an older version of Access (ie I assume even older than 2002!) and can't be updated. I tried to do this a few years ago in order to tinker with the scale speed settings for each loco which are held in the database record.

I therefore took an alternative approach of setting up an Excel spreadsheet with a couple of fairly simple embedded VBA macros to read the records from resource.mdb into the spreadsheet and to write them back again, thus allowing me to edit the loco data within Excel and update the database. This works very nicely and I still use it to adjust speed factors and speed curves.

It strikes me that you could if you wished take a similar approach in order to manipulate your enormous database, for example to read all the smaller databases into a single spreadsheet and write them out as a single database, or to sort the locos into a different sequence more easily than within RM.

If you're comfortable with Excel VBA macros and want to explore this further, I'd be happy to let you have examples of the macros.

Regards, John

[JWRStation]

John

Macros in Excel take me back 20 years or more when I used to do a lot of spreadsheet work. I always found it easier to use a spreadsheet as a database anyway. I use 2002 as well for the work on my 97 Pro windows computer as I found RM ran better. When opening (from inside access) the Resource file it does come up with the error message about an 'older' version but then accepting this it opens up the database pane and I can then open the table.. You do have to be careful moving around inside the table as it sometimes (for no discernible reason?) crashes though opening it up again is where you left it. One thing I did find was that directly entering a Loco Without selecting a Hornby R number of a loco for the initial details will cause the database to crash because of missing entries.. Also, though it says its an access database and is .mdb it actually is not as it has a number of database parameters missing from an 'real' access mdb. Reason why it cannot be converted.

Macros would be interesting to trial and also about the speed curve entry's?? What did you find as I have messed about a bit with them and even deleting them seemed to not make any difference to the loco???

[Britannia Builder]

Hi Joe

Re the speed curve entries in Resource.mdb, these only apply if you are using scale speeds in RailMaster. They translate a selected speed in mph (or kph) to a speed step value for the decoder. The separate optional speed curve in for example an HM7000 TXS decoder then translates the speed step value to a voltage. The field SpeedCurve in the database is a comma-separated list of factors that apply to speeds of 5mph, 10mph and then steps of 10mph up to the maximum speed for the loco. For example the default speed curve for my A1 is:

2.316,1.881,1.411,1.131,1.021,0.936,0.876,0.816,1.446,

RM interpolates in this list to get a factor which is multiplied by the speed and the Factor field (and if I remember rightly another constant for mph versus kph) to give the speed step.

I went through a phase a few years ago of updating these speed curves to try to get accurate scale speeds across the speed range, but now I don't bother - I just adjust the Factor field (which you can also do within RM) to get a reasonable speed at 40mph.

I've uploaded my two Excel VBA macros to my website at

www.britanniabuilder.com/RMresourceeditor.txt for you to look at.

These can be inserted into an Excel spreadsheet and triggered by for example ctrl-i to read and ctrl-u to update. You set the field names that you want to read in the first row of the spreadsheet, and ctrl-i will then read these fields for each loco into rows 2 onwards. Ctrl-u will update the fields after editing in Excel. You could use similar VBA logic to move entire loco records around within or between databases.

Regards, John

[JWRStation]

Thanks John and I have now a copy of the file. I spent many (many) days on speed control to get RM selected speed to equal what was measured. I battery DC test run all my loco's so as to keep an eye on motor condition especially regarding the magnets and I have replaced many with various packs of Neodymium types. Using the battery method I can modify size and number fitted to optimise lowest running current, motor noise, motor start 'harshness' etc; but I digress. I have found that most locos above crawl speed have a fairly linear speed line. Decoder internal speed checks for settings also tend to have a fairly linear relationship for speed step to voltage. As a result speed control 'Should' also be fairly linear but in RM it is not. Some of my Locos once optimised for cruise barely slow down at say 30mph whilst some others barely run above crawl?? Even using the decoder 'complex' speed curve does not always get round this and taking a day to process each loco is not something at want to waste my time on; so like you I set cruise and crawl and juggle anything inbetween. maybe though will look at modifying the resources entries and see what happens.