Has Quality Control gone out of the window at Hornby

[Ben -380039]

I have recently bought more new models from Hornby direct than what I have ever done before, I would usually purchase from a model shop where you could view a model and see the quality of the item you are buying

My most recent purchase of the black LNER A3 LEMBURG model arrived today, the smoke box was missing from the front of the steam train, the top of the model had several very noticeable glue marks along the top and the handrails at the front were twisted or bent.

I found the smoke box door down one side of the plastic box of the model so maybe it came off in handling however the glue/grease stains, and the lack of attention to making sure key parts are clipped on instead of glued on just seems to keep being missed or ignored with newer models

This seems to be an ongoing issue with not only hornby but also other model manufacturers. The models look amazing until you get them out of the box and then you realise they aren't being built or put together properly.

So disappointing and disheartening.

We seem to be paying more for poorer quality items. I miss the opportunity to visit a local model shop.

[atom3624]

I find increasingly 'little details which matter' are not being monitored either.

Gear linkages which should move - that for the valve actuation of larger steam locomotives - is centred and doesn't articulate much.

Speedo cables which should be centred are not and move visibly.

This as you intimated relates to poor attention to detail / quality control.

Glue marks / smears and parts falling off just shouldn't happen.

Al.

[Going Spare]

Agreed, it should not happen. Contact Hornby Customer Service for a returns number and send it back to them for replacement.

[Moccasin]

Agreed, it should not happen. Contact Hornby Customer Service for a returns number and send it back to them for replacement.

 

 

Not only does going to Hornby for a replacement get you the model you paid for, if there is a recurring quality issue with a particular batch, factory or manufacturer they will be able to spot this and get it addressed.

Some early TT120 models had apparent quality issues but these seem to be much rarer now, partly down to customers returning them and Hornby being able to address the issue with their suppliers. I recall that some customers were very unlucky and had to go through 2-3 model returns before getting one that was correct. Some customers I think gave up altogether.

[DarkRedCape]

It really doesn't help that the way Hornby, or whoever actually packages and ships their products, take such little care in their protection. I've have multiple items arrive in a much larger box, with absolutely no bubble wrap. I can only imagine how many times the item inside was knocked left and right in transit.

This should be a priority for Hornby as we've all seen the videos of delivery drivers "loading" their vans. How can you expect an item so delicate as a modern Hornby train to arrive undamaged, when you take no precautions as to it's safety.

This seems counterproductive on Hornby's part as it just costs them money. The item is returned, it is repaired, or in most cases, simply replaced. All avoidable at the cost of 10p of bubble wrap.

[Rallymatt]

There is definitely something to be said for returning items rather than trying to make right ourselves. Sometimes we just sort it but ultimately when it starts costing a manufacturer money they start jumping about! It’s unlikely that Hornby are the only customer at the various factories so having their own QC on site and at several sites is not practical. It does mean manufacturers are in the hands of the internal QC at each factory and that’s not always ideal (read never)

[Bulleidboy]

I assume everything is packaged, ready to go, in China? I have to say that all of my purchases over the last eighteen months have been very well packaged.

[The son of Triangman]

With overseas product QC being distant it's not always easy. There needs to be a QC department set up at Margate and every model checked before putting it out to customers or to warehouse. Maybe even a bit of the old warehouse could be used once a model has been through UK QC, I know it's where the 1 to 1 collection is, but a bit could be used.

[atom3624]

I could understand that quite a large area of that 1:1 would be required, at least 2x A4's worth 'though they have got quite a large area there.

A little extra before sale would save a lot of hassle later - and despite the extra initial cost, it would long-term probably save them a lot of grief, and their reputation, which still remains a high level.

Al.

[ff2nd]

With overseas product QC being distant it's not always easy. There needs to be a QC department set up at Margate and every model checked before putting it out to customers or to warehouse. Maybe even a bit of the old warehouse could be used once a model has been through UK QC, I know it's where the 1 to 1 collection is, but a bit could be used.

 

 

There is no way that a company shipping as many items over as many brands as Hornby could possibly check every single item. The number of staff needed would be phenomenal, which would add to the cost of every model sold. Next you'd be complaining about the price increase. Hornby don't own the old warehouse. There is no room inside it at all, because of the 1:1 Collection. Also, shipping Hornby products to Margate, and then on to the shipping centre, would add yet another cost which they don't need to incur.

 

 

The solution is to contact Hornby if you have a problem, and get them to put it right. Calls for UK manufacture or 100% QC checks are not based in reality, sadly.

[ColinB]

ff2nd you are right but on the other hand the lack of decent quality assurance has to be part of your formula for putting the work overseas. I remember all those years ago when I lived in Kent one of their managers was on the local news saying the formula to success was to have decent quality control in China. This was at a time when anything coming out of China was considered rubbish. So I assume years of bankruptcy and change of ownership has got rid of this. The general failure rate for Chinese production (what they accept as reasonable is 10%), most British firms it is less than 1%. Now that is ok if you are making thousands and they cost virtually nothing but when you are talking Hornby Dublo at £300 plus and a run of 500 models, 10% is quite a hit. Trouble is a firm like Hornby doesn't have the finance to have designers jetting out to China to sort out issues, like my old firm used to do. People will tell you that video conferencing works, but believe me for technical stuff it doesn't (been there got the tee shirt).

[The son of Triangman]

ff2nd I wasn't suggesting qc in the 1 to 1 area, just storage after qc. Qc could be done in part of the old factory which is practically empty (I've been there), with a bit of the 1 to 1 warehouse area used to store products after UK QC. The Herston site could even be disposed of then. In the old days at Margate every single model went through a 3 stage QC process.

[Splatz]

Totally agree Colin. In my early career I used to fly out a lot back when I was a designer of things being built in China. I was only going out to check that things were being built correctly.

[threelink]

Interesting to read that China allegedly regards 10% as an acceptable failure rate. I had a client who made medical equipment in which failure could not be tolerated. Rather against his instincts, initially, he outsourced manufacturing of some components to Korea. The manufacturers routinely shipped an extra 10% to guard against failures and damage in transit. My client ended up with a warehouse full of 10%s because there never were any failures and the packing was second to none.

[Going Spare]

I am not at all sure the 10% figure has any basis in fact and would be interested to know ColinB's source.

I was told by a Hornby representative some time ago that their contract with the China manufacturer provided for up to a 10% shortfall in delivered product but I have not heard that figure quoted in relation to defective product.

[ColinB]

Yes Going Spare that was the figure banded around in the media. I know, nothing to do with model trains, but a guy making luxury wallets out of leather decided to get them made in China. When they got delivered he found out about the 10% failures which really ate into his profits. In the end he got them made in the UK, more expensive initially but because his failure rate was lower and he could get in his car and drive there, cheaper in the long run. I think it was an item on some program on the ITV. Batteries are another one you have to be very careful with. A lot of the ones on EBay are that 10%, we used to have a lot of issues with car remote controls where they fitted those batteries.

[RB51]

Fascinating though it all is, can we bring this thread back to QC at Hornby? R-

[ColinB]

If the new management has any sense it will be one of their top priorities. Trouble is quality control is perceived by many as non value add. Bigger issue is though if you get a duff loco you are probably more likely never going to buy another one rather than sending it back.

[LTSR_NSE]

I wholeheartedly agree with those who wish to see improvement in quality control, although whether to do it in the UK or at the factories in China, would definitely be a balance between labour cost, practicality & effectiveness. If any products are shipped internationally directly from China (rather than all being shipped to UK first & then internationally) then that would increase the need for it to be done in China.

I would ask anyone who assumes that ‘most people’ would be more likely to (a) return a faulty item or (b) accept it but avoid further purchases, to provide research/studies backing that up - since both outcomes seem equally plausible. Considering the cost, I would think there was a fairly even split between those who feel the money demands perfection, and those who feel their time is more valuable than money.

[81F]

If new send it back.

I'm not sure about body defects but I bought a PBA 0-6-0 sentinel that that didn't run. After a phone call and an email giving me instruction on where to send things, I returned the model to Hornby.

I got the model back last week and according to the defects sheet they had to replace the pick-ups. The loco now runs perfectly. So much so I would say it is even smoother than another that didn't need sending back.

Sadly even with the best will in the world things can go wrong, I am therefore a believer in the view that you can only really judge a company by the way they resolve any issue and in my case top marks to Hornby.

[What About The Bee]

81F, you wrote:

I am therefore a believer in the view that you can only really judge a company by the way they resolve any issue and in my case top marks to Hornby.

 

 

When everything is going right, the only thing to be learned is price and quality. When things go wrong, that is when you see into the heart of your vendors. That is the moment of clarity.

Bee

 

 

[Rallymatt]

Looking specifically at UK model railway companies, the level of customer service is between great and amazing. Things go wrong, that’s life and no brand of anything has 100% perfection, Boeing prove that with alarming frequency and that’s an industry with probably the most intense QA of any mass manufacturing sector. If you look at the UK model railway scene, staff retention is outstanding which says these people love the job they do. I have never encountered a single person at Hornby or other UK model company who isn’t 100% invested in the hobby or giving great service. It’s always disappointing when things don’t go right and when production is on the other side of the world, reality dictates it’s very hard to influence on a minute by minute basis QC. It’s clear that the industry that supports our hobby, like so many others, is having a tough time in the economic and geo political landscape. We need to be a bit kinder to each other and also to those that are genuinely trying deliver the models we desire. It’s all too easy to deride and scoff like so many zero value YouTubers and alike do, but amazingly those people never actually step up and show you how good they are and open their own model making business for us to judge them by.

[ausrym]

I've purchased 4 Hornby locos and 2 of them (both J15's had issues - one the moptor dies after 6 months, the other would work 1 day, not the next (very tempramental).

The B17 I bought has been a shocking jerky runner and nothing has fixed it.

I bought so many Hornby spares, serviced, cleaned and lubed them but no dice.

Ironically my 'train set' Hogwarts Express with a 3-pole motor has been the best crawler and perfectly reliable.

I've given up on Hornby locos - they aren't worth the hassle and have pre-ordered a Dapol large prairie from the upcoming 2nd batch as my 'Plan B' loco

[Rallymatt]

Have you contacted Hornby for a warranty repair?

[RB51]

A return to Hornby for an in warranty repair should have been your first port of call. You might be able to get that now, but I suspect you may be charged for any repair as you have intervened. R-