Britannia Builder Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I have a Class 47 'Lindisfarne' as part of the Majestic train set that I bought to start my layout a few months ago. It runs very smoothly and quietly on the straights, but the wheels make a distinct scraping sound on curves. I only really noticed it recently, but it may have been there all along. It happens at high and low speeds and on 2nd and 3rd radius curves - perhaps slightly more on 2nd radius. The back to back measurement is 14.20-14.23 mm on all 6 axles and there is reasonable sideways movement on all axles - less on the 2 powered axles than the other 4. All the axles turn freely and they don't appear to touch the bodywork when cornering, and the bogies swing freely. There are rubber tyres on one wheel on each of the 2 powered axles. There are pickup contacts on all 12 wheels - one of them was bent back but I fixed this and it made no difference. Any ideas as to what may be causing this, or is it normal behaviour? Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Could one or more of the wheels be catching on the chassis when pushed over as they might be when on a curve?The correct back to back distance (b2b) should be 14.4 +/- 0.05mm but Hornby often seem to use a bit smaller b2b of about 13.9mm on some of the carriages and wagons that I have bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Definitely sounds like the wheels are rubbing against the chassis or body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britannia Builder Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 As far as I can see the wheels are not touching the bodywork, but there is a slight scraping noise from one of the pickup contacts when the axle is pushed sideways to compress it, so it could be that. I'll try bending it in a bit. The noise is not that bad, and I probably only noticed it because the loco is so smooth and quiet on the straights. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 You said there are pickups on all wheels but two have traction tyres. Bit unusual to have pickups on these as they are insulated from the track. Are they making the noise perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britannia Builder Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Yes, I was pleasantly surprised to find pickups on all 12 wheels. This is the data sheet: https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/download/item/439 I guess that the 2 with traction tyres might pick up a bit through their flanges - but it was probably easier to fit the standard 3-prong contacts on each side of each bogie than to omit the tyred wheels. I'm not sure why the tyred wheels would make a noise though - I guess that on a curve they would grip the rail and the untyred opposite wheel would slip to account for the difference in radius? Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Hearing about wheel noise from class 47s reminded me of an experience in the 1970s when I spent a few days at the APCM sidings at Northfleet. Here a new cement works had been built and a Merry Go Round system was installed to bring in coal and gypsum, and to load and carry away cement in bulk. The Merry-Go-Round circuit was bored under the town of Northfleet through two tunnels, and entered this from an old chalk quarry into which the BR connection descended. The rail lines in the quarry were sharply curved and the squealing of the wheels echoed round the quarry which amplified the sound and at night it was unbearable for the nearby residents. There were continual complaints to APCM and British Rail. One chance comment by a resident was that they prayed for rain, because the noise disappeared when it rained. This was picked up by the local engineer who developed an automatic rain system. Sprinklers were installed in the quarry aimed at the track and as soon as the track circuits detected a train a valve was opened feeding water from a storage tank to the sprinklers which supressed the noise. Peace returned to North Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Looks like John will have to buy a watering can then LC 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 In Live Steam Ken (gowest) tells us about automatic rail greasers on tight curves to initiate wheel slip and reduce wear of wheel and rail. How many other odd railway practices are there...oops seem to have gone off topic here, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Lubrication is as ever important but should never be overdone. On the real railway track mounted lubricators should apply a small measured amount of grease at the places where the wheel flange meets the rail on the approach to and through a curve. In normal running the wheel flange should NOT contact the rail but at curves the front and back of the flange may come into contact. If properly set up no grease should reach the rail head where rolling contact is needed for traction and braking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-673551 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 I have a Class 47 'Lindisfarne' as part of the Majestic train set that I bought to start my layout a few months ago. It runs very smoothly and quietly on the straights, but the wheels make a distinct scraping sound on curves. I only really noticed it recently, but it may have been there all along. It happens at high and low speeds and on 2nd and 3rd radius curves - perhaps slightly more on 2nd radius. The back to back measurement is 14.20-14.23 mm on all 6 axles and there is reasonable sideways movement on all axles - less on the 2 powered axles than the other 4. All the axles turn freely and they don't appear to touch the bodywork when cornering, and the bogies swing freely. There are rubber tyres on one wheel on each of the 2 powered axles. There are pickup contacts on all 12 wheels - one of them was bent back but I fixed this and it made no difference. Any ideas as to what may be causing this, or is it normal behaviour? Regards, John Hello John. Just stumbled upon your post here from 5 years ago!Did you solve this problem?Only I’ve recently started using the same loco and am experiencing EXACTLY the same problem as you describe. Also, did you ever discover the reason for the two traction tyres? One of the rubbers on mine has cracked and split off, so if it’s important I’ll need to purchase a spare.Thanks. Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 The traction tyres are there to provide ... traction ... thus they are important and if deteriorated will need replacing as the wheel groove without its tyre will not run correctly on the rail. Light locos with limited driving wheels often slip under load of a few coaches hence the need for grippy tyres on some of the wheels. You can’t have them on all drive wheels as there is a need to pick up power through some of the metal wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 The pack of traction tyres you need is X9722. This gives you 10 tyres and so I would replace the tyre that is still on the loco as well as the one that has gone missing.Unless you find the noise annoying, I would (slightly flippantly) suggest leaving well alone because most wheels on the real railway squeal when negotiating tight curves. To try to eradicate it, have you lubricated the axle bearings?Another source of the noise could be the pick-ups rubbing on the rear faces of the wheels. Cleaning those pick-ups and wheel surfaces may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 As GS mentioned, have you (lightly) lubricated the axle bushes ("bearings")?There should be relatively free side-to-side movement of each axle within the limits of the chassis.Possibly it's picked up some fluff / dirt?Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 As GS says, squealing wheels happens on the real railway when negotiating curves. I think it adds authenticity to a model railway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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