Pacific Tanks

[Tony57]

Hi 

I was re reading last months Hornby Mag in particular the item on Pacific Locomotives (4 6 2s) that have been made and what had not been made. In the article it mentioned 4 6 2Ts. A number of different companies made them all over the country with some have a productive life of over 50 years.

LNWR Prince of Wales tank, NER A7, LBSCR J1,  GCR Robinson A5, SR Urie H16, Caledonian Pickergill Class 944

How about it  Hornby can you made us a couple of Pacific Tanks please?

[STU1964]

I'm certainly in favour of some LNER pacific tanks.   My local sheds (Botanic Gardens, Dairycoates and Springhead) had all 4 classes at one time or other.   The A5 saw the most widespread use so would probably be the most popular of the 4 though personally I would like an A7 for freight and an A8 for passenger work.

[Fazy]

I'm a LMS fan,  but the big LNER Ravon tanks are something else.  Just lovely machines. 

[LCDR]

 As well as the Pacifics there were also the Baltics, using a 4 wheel bogie under the bunker instead. These were the  LB&SCR, L , G&SWR Whitelegg,  LT&SR Whitelegg,  Furness Rutherford,  and  the L&YR  P1 classes. These were perhaps less succesful, but were undoubtedly handsome machines.

 

I guess the Raven Pacific tanks would be welcome by North Eastern fans.

 

Here are a couple of kit built ones owned by a friend of mine.

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[Postman Prat]

 You bet!!!       😆

[Slornie]

Slightly (!) off topic but can anyone explain the origin of the "Pacific" moniker for me?  It's pretty consistently used but I've never come across anything that tells me why the 4-6-2 arrangement is known thus.

 

I was previously aware of "Atlantic" as well but "Baltic" is a new one on me!  What other configurations are named after bodies of water?  😛

[walkingthedog]

I guess if they decided to name wheel configurations after bodies of water why not PacifIc. Maybe English Channel or The North Sea was a bit too long.  😆

[Postman Prat]

Could be something totally different such as The South China Sea or the Gulf of Carpentaria

 

Nothing to do with bodies of water as such but the first Pacific was built by the Southern Pacific or Union Pacific in the states, which is where the name comes from. Same thing with a Mogul - built by some railway in India, a mogul being an Indian ruler of some sort.

 

There are lots more, hopefully LC&DR will come to my rescue.   😉

[Vallence]

The Pacific arrangement is named after the first 4-6-2, built by Baldwin for the New Zealand Railway.

Atlantic is named after the Atlantic City Railroad (which I don't think was very successful, or at least my book about US locos says it wasn't).

 

[LCDR]

 The earliest original reference I have to the Whyte classification and the names given to various wheel arrangements is contained in a USA published "Encyclopedia of Engineerting" dated 1919.

This allocates names to most wheel arrangements, but a lot are fairly pedestrian.

Proper names in this list include -

2-6-0 Mogul

2-8-0 Consolidation

2-10-0 Decapod

2-4-2 Columbia

2-6-2 Prarie

4-4-2 Atlantic

4-6-2 Pacific

There was no mention of Baltic  in this list

As to the less imaginative appellations - 4-6-0 is a "Ten Wheel"  0-4-4 is a "Fourney 4 Coupled" and a 2-6-4 is a " 6 coupled". In this list a 4-6-4 is a " 6 coupled double ender"

 

Stepping forward 26 years I also have a 1935 dated copy of the Locomotive Engineer's pocket book published by the Locomotive Publishing Company.

This adds

2-12-0 Centipede

2-10-2 Santa Fe

4-4-0 American

4-10-0 Mastodon

4-8-2 Mountain

4-6-4 Baltic

2-8-8-4 Yellowstone

I have always understood that these names originated in the USA because the names tend to refer to those types commonly used in the US.

 

A 1910 UK locomotive engineer's diary that I have includes diagrams of a considerable variety of locomotives, but simply refers to them as "4-4-2 type", "4-6-2 type" "0-4-4 type" etc.

[LCDR]

 The earliest original reference I have to the Whyte classification and the names given to various wheel arrangements is contained in a USA published "Encyclopedia of Engineerting" dated 1919.

This allocates names to most wheel arrangements, but a lot are fairly pedestrian.

Proper names in this list include -

2-6-0 Mogul

2-8-0 Consolidation

2-10-0 Decapod

2-4-2 Columbia

2-6-2 Prarie

4-4-2 Atlantic

4-6-2 Pacific

There was no mention of Baltic  in this list

As to the less imaginative appellations - 4-6-0 is a "Ten Wheel"  0-4-4 is a "Fourney 4 Coupled" and a 2-6-4 is a " 6 coupled". In this list a 4-6-4 is a " 6 coupled double ender"

 

Stepping forward 26 years I also have a 1935 dated copy of the Locomotive Engineer's pocket book published by the Locomotive Publishing Company.

This adds

2-12-0 Centipede

2-10-2 Santa Fe

4-4-0 American

4-10-0 Mastodon

4-8-2 Mountain

4-6-4 Baltic

2-8-8-4 Yellowstone

I have always understood that these names originated in the USA because the names tend to refer to those types commonly used in the US.

 

A 1910 UK locomotive engineer's diary that I have includes diagrams of a considerable variety of locomotives, but simply refers to them as "4-4-2 type", "4-6-2 type" "0-4-4 type" etc.

[LCDR]

 The description of locomotives by their arrangement of wheels originated with F. M. Whyte General Mechanical Engineer New York Central Railroad  (1865 - 1941) . This describes from left to right the number of leading carrying, driving, and trailing carrying wheels. Thus "4-6-2" has a leading 4 wheel bogie, six coupled driving wheels and a pair of carrying wheels under the cab. An alternative origin put forward for the name "Pacific" is given as the first locomotive supplied to the Missouri Pacific Railroad.

 

Another name for wheel arrangement sometimes used includes "Adriatic" for a 2-6-4,

 

In Europe, particularly France the arrangement of axles, not wheels, is used. Thus a "Pacific" in France is a 2-3-1, (or a 2-C-1 on a system which allocates a letter to any wheels which transmit power rather than a number). This latter system slightly modified is nowadays used worldwide to describe diesel; and electric locomotives, so a diesel locomotive on two six wheel bogies with the outer axles motored will be an "A-1-A - A-1-A" and with motors on all axles "Co-Co". A lower case letter 'o' indicating that the axle is not coupled mechanically to any others. A diesel like the 'Fell' No. 10100 which had a wheel arrangement of a leading 4 wheel bogie, eight driving wheels and a trailing four wheel bogie ,similar to a steam engine, with axles coupled with rods was classified "2-D-2".

[LCDR]

 A further method of describing the configuration of steam locomotives applies more properly to articulated locomotives.

 

On these locomotives the boiler is supported on two or more sets of frames holding the driving wheels and cylinders. These will be pivoted to allow the locomotive to negotiate curves. In the USA the "Mallet" type became extremely popular in the 1920s and 1930s. A typical wheel arrangement might be a 4-6-6-2, where there are two seperate groups of 6 driving wheels each with its own cylinders.  Flexible steam pipes su[pplied steam from the boiler to the cylinders . In kost other respects however they resembled a normal steam locomotive, only considerably larger, with a smokebox at the front of the boiler and a driving cab at the rear. Coal and water being carried on a tender attached behind the cab end.

 

A type developed by the UK especially for use in the Empire was the "Beyer Garratt". This has two seperate driving units and a single boiler but the coal and water is carried above the driving wheels and boiler is suspended above the units between the water tanks and the coal bunker. There are some narrow gauge Garratts of this type reimported from South Africa  still operating in Wales.

 

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Another type which uses articulation is the "Fairlie". This has two seperate engine chassis, but the boiler is doubled so that the locomotive faces both ways, and has two of everything although the water space in the boiler is combined.. This is more suitable for smaller narrow gauge types because accomodation for the footplate crew is awkward. This type is chiefly associated with the Ffestiniog Railway in Wales where they can be seen operating daily.

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