What is really is left to do?

[LCDR]

Over the years the various producers have given us a huge selection of models and although not all of them are in production it is not impossible to have a reasonably good example of virtually all top link steam locomotive and main line diesel class in

ones collection.

If we allow for special commissions, models announced for 2012 and recently discontinued models that are still available second hand, and ignoring livery variations the main ommissions to date are -

NON-STEAM Fell diesel prototype

(10100), Brush 800 hp Bo-Bo (prototype 10800), Bulleid 0-6-0 (11001), Master/Slave 0-6-6-0 Class 13, Prototype Class 41 HST power car, WR Gas Turbine 18000 & 18001, ex SR DC electric 20001, 20002 & 20003, ex NER DC electric ES1 26500/1, EB1 26502-11, EE1 26600,

BR AC Electric Bo-Bo AL1, AL2, AL3 & AL4,
BR DC Electric Bo-Bo class 71, Bo-Bo Electro Diesel 74, AC Co-Co class 89. LTE MV 1200hp Bo-Bo.

STEAM 5MT and above,
WR The Great Bear, 4000 Star class, 47xx 2-8-0, 51xx rebuilds 2-6-2T,
SR

G16 4-6-0T, H15 4-6-0, H16 4-6-2T, S15 4-6-0, Z 0-8-0T, N1 2-6-0, W 2-6-4T, K 2-6-0,
LMSR 5MT Stanier 2-6-0, Caprotti Stanier 5MT 4-6-0, Claughton 4-6-0, LNWR 0-8-2T, 0-8-4T, Fowler 7F 0-8-0, LYR Hughes 4-6-0, class 30

0-8-0,
LNER W1 4-6-4, B8 4-6-0, B7 4-6-0, B16 4-6-0, B9 4-6-0, V4 2-6-2, K4 2-6-0, K1 2-6-0, Q4 0-8-0, Q5 0-8-0, Q6 0-8-0, Q7 0-8-0, O3 2-8-0, O2 2-8-0, J19 0-6-0, J20 0-6-0, J26 0-6-0, J27 0-6-0, J38 0-6-0, L3 2-6-4T,

S1 0-8-4T, T1 4-8-0T, Q1 0-8-0T.

There are many types of lower power class steam than 5MT not modelled, but I don't intend to list them all. However I do feel that there are some useful types in that band such as
WR 16xx 0-6-6PT, 94xx 0-6-0PT,


SR LSWR 700 0-6-0, SECR D 4-4-0 & H 0-4-4T, LBSCR I3 4-4-2T, E4 0-6-2T and H2 4-4-2, SR U 2-6-0,
LMSR Stanier 2-6-2T, LTS 4-4-2T, Caledonian 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 Dunalistair, L&NWR 0-6-0 Cauliflower, MR 0-4-4T,
LNER D11 4-4-0, D16 4-4-0, D34 4-4-0,E4

2-4-0, J11 0-6-0, J36, N7 0-6-2T, N15 0-6-2T & J68 J69 0-6-0T, J70 0-6-0 &
BR 2MT 2-6-2T 84000.

[fatwalletboy]

Triang made the AL1.

[LCDR]

Actually the AL1 was a Hornby Dublo model adopted by Tri-ang/Hornby, and Trix made one as well, but these were not models to present day standards and are hard to find nowadays.

I made a couple of ommissions in the steam section of course the Original

Merchant Navy 4-6-2, and the Duke of Gloucester, having read elswhere in the forum that this latter was proposed for next year which has now been denied I missed it off.

It is remarkable though that apart from a few small early prototype or one-off

classes all main line diesels have been modelled in recent years, so there is very little scope for new diesels for the forseeable future without duplication. It will be interesting to see how this goes in future. Will some of the dealer sponsored special

editions remain available into the future?

Turning to DMUs for a moment, there are not that many low density classes left to make either. What is absent are decent models of high density/suburban types (class 117 for example) once made by Lima and the

Intercity / Trans-Pennine type which were once made by Trix.

There is still a very long way to go to adequately address the vacancies in electric multiple unit models, particularly pre-war and AC.

[poliss]

How many LC&DR models are there LC&DR?

[fatwalletboy]

triang, hornby dublo, trix. tomate-oe, tomato. Dont feel miffed that you omitted it from your list. Its really not the end of your world.

And for clarity I didnt spot a direct reference that those on the list had to be "to modern day standards"

or those that are now a little elusive.

A large G&T and youll get over the aberration.....

[LCDR]

If you can find an AL1 in good condition and affordable you are a better man than I am gunga din! And when you do you will find that the pantograph, if it still has one, is out of scale by a mile, and dimensionally it is a bit dubious, as were all ex Hornby

Dublo models, and certainly not up to today's standards. The list was intended to show there are very few models left for the producers to have a go at, rather than the alternative case.

And I cannot abide gin, but if you are offering a rum and blackcurrant

instead I would gladly accept. :-)

[LCDR]

poliss said:

How many LC&DR models are there LC&DR?

None so far, however an A class 0-4-4T, a B2 class 0-6-0 and a M3 class 4-4-0 would be most welcome!

[The son of Triangman]

The old AL1 would make a good Railroad model, the pantograph is crudely detailed and out of scale as has been said, but is robust as a Railroad model part should be,

A model of the GT3 4-6-0 loco would also be good for GCR fans in particular.

[Postman Prat]

LC&DR, I'm disgusted with you. Ruining a tot of rum by putting Blackcurrant in it. The only thing that should be added to a tot of rum is a tot of rum

I'm not going to point out any shortcomings in your giant list - suffice it to say that I

could not, and would not, attempt such a mighty tome. However I was surprised when it was pointed out you'd forgotten the Merchant!!

WTD is happy - no 'Nellie@

Happy New Year my friend

[poliss]

How about a Raven A2? Don't think there have been any rtr models of that, although DJH did make a kit.

[Postman Prat]

Be far better off with a B16, either original or rebuilt!!

[Fazy]

seems light on the wagons and couches i would just like to see if you could make a bigger list

[LCDR]

No one really cares about wagons, and very few people care about coaches, they are just so much rammel to hang behind the buffers of the wonderful locomotive on the front. I bet few if any railway modellers would have carriages and wagons in proportion

to the number of locomotives in their collection. Here is a useful fact. For every steam locomotive you have in your collection, if you were doing it properly, you should have approximately 60 goods wagons, and of these at least 40 should be open wagons to

carry coal. There would be few if any tank wagons either as they formed only a tiny proportion of the national fleet. You should have four passenger carriages for every engine too.

Now this is never really going to happen is it? No one has a layout

big enough.

Then there is the authenticity of the wagons. Only if you really care about authenticity do you need a large variety to ensure you you always match the era and geographical location correctly. Any old 4 wheeled box will do in other cases.

How many people know what colour and what lettering style is correct for a given period, and frankly how many really care?
The main stream manufacturers make a good selection of goods vehicles, and provided you don't stick to one brand you can make up a

train to suit all tastes. For passenger stock the only areas less well catered for are rural branch lines on the LMS / Midland region, and Southern branch lines prior to 1959.

It is generally pointless to get too worked up about carriages and wagons

in the RTR ranges. Yes it is nice to get highly detailed rolling stock, such as the new 51 foot LNER suburbans, but someone modelling the Seaton Branch, or the Cockermouth, Keswick, and Penrith will have little use for them. If you are modelling 'freelance'

i.e. nowhere in particular, anything goes of course, but then highly detailed stock is generally irrelevant.

Personally I have been extremely grateful for the Maunsell 59 footers, and I am looking forward to the competition's 25 ton Pill Box brake van,

but for the rest it is scratch building and kits.

[Fazy]

it seems to me you could have saved a lot of time and just said ( I DONT CARE)

[LCDR]

fazy said:

it seems to me you could have saved a lot of time and just said ( I DONT CARE)

Oh but I DO care, it is just that most railway enthusiasts of my aquaintance do not. I have made a personal and detailed study of freight

rolling stock for 30 or more years, I have co-written books and articles about wagons and I am still doing so. I have personally measured and drawn to scale over a hundred freight vehicles. My attic contains sketches and GAs for probably two hundred more.

It might be that I could be regarded as obsessive about them.

Look at most picture captions in books and magazines and I defy you to find one that accurately describes the wagons in a train that is being hauled. Look at most model railway layouts including

some very well known exhibition ones and you will find that there are serious 'howlers' being made all the tine with goods trains. No one seems to want to obey marshalling and loading rules, and why should they, it might spoil their play time.

I just

know that making a list of wagons I would wih to be made in the future is futile, no one has got the basics right yet. There are no half decent models of Freightliner FFA/FGAs for example which with the HAA were the single most important wagon types to appear

from the Beeching Plan. There are no good qualty models of the 21 ton Coal Hopper wagon, which were after the 16 ton Mineral were the most important BR era coal wagon. Hornby chose to make the Tope which is a cut down version but to date have singularly failed

to make a model of the donor wagon HTO/HTV which uses many of the components. This is just a tiny fraction of the problem. If the big manufacturers are so blind as they cannot see something staring them in the face, what can I possibly do. If it doesn't look

like it puffs steam or squirts out oily smoke they just ain't interested.

You won't beleive how much I DO care, but I know that if I rant about it will get us nowhere.

[Fazy]

sounds to me that it could be said that you are a man who knows is beans. i must say that i may fall in the group that dose tend not to know but i have started to build more rolling stock for my self and i tend to build some thing that i like the look

of and goes with a loco which i own. i have just orderd some books on couches for the LNWR and the MR and well building some couches this year i will then be moveing on to wagons at a later date. it would be most welcome if you could surgest any good books

which covers wagons.

[LCDR]

fazy said:

sounds to me that it could be said that you are a man who knows is beans. i must say that i may fall in the group that dose tend not to know but i have started to build more rolling stock for my self and i tend to build some thing

that i like the look of and goes with a loco which i own. i have just orderd some books on couches for the LNWR and the MR and well building some couches this year i will then be moveing on to wagons at a later date. it would be most welcome if you could surgest

any good books which covers wagons.

WAGON BOOKS
It will depend upon the era you want to model and the depth you wish to get into but there are some good starter books although most are no longer in print.Some do turn up second-hand so it

is well worth keeping your eye open for them.

A good general history book was BRITISH GOODS WAGONS FROM 1887 TO THE PRESENT DAY by ESSERY, ROWLANDS and STEEL, published in 1970 by David & Charles, copies are still circulating in the second hand market.

That Publisher also published a companion volume called the LMS Wagon.

Any of the books by David LARKIN are worth getting if you are interested in the BR period. His 6 volume Pictorial Study books published by Kestrel Books are crammed full of data

and pictures. A long time ago he also produced a series of small albums for the defunct publisher Bradford Barton, and these also turn up second hand now and again fairly cheaply.

The late G. Gamble produced a similar series of albums for Cheona Publications.

There are 14 soft cover volumes mostly about wagons in the BR era. Lots of pictures and a fair bit of information.

If you are into modern wagons Ian Allan are publishing a series of albums and the two by David RATCLIFFE are particularly useful His

first two, Private Owner Wagons and International Train Ferry Wagons are excellent.

If your interests are significantly earlier than BR then you will find that the books are getting expensive and more specialist. There are multi volume works on SR,

GWR, LNER and LMS wagons many of which are no longer in print, but do get reprinted now and again, or turn up second hand and there are also books on the LNWR, L&YR, Midland, and a host of other railways. However the list is long and complex. There is a very

good series on pre War Private Owner wagons, now up to about 11 volumes currently in print, publish by Lightmoor Press and written by Keith Turton. Because there were nearly 700,000 private owner wagons on the British railways before 1939 Keith still has a

long way to go!

Carriages are a whole different ball game, and there are dozens and dozens of titles to choose from. I have probably bored everyone enough with this thread so I'll draw it to a close here. All I will say is that for anyone who can get

to York, instead of wandering around the Great Hall oggling the hardware, why not go up stairs (in the corner near the Shinkensen) and visit the Search Engine, there are thousands of excellent books there on all kinds of subject. Much more reliable than the

internet. Sadly for our overseas friends this may not be possible, but if you livein the UK and within travelling distance of York and haven't been there you are missing a treat.

[81F]

The hornby Saint look so crude - even when butchered and detailed againt the Grange and someone elses Hall that it really needs a revamp - the main problem is at the front end. Over long smoke box buffer beam too high (front running plate and curve leading

to it needs to be deeper and cylinders are too short.

Could Hornby use parts from their Grange with larger wheels new running board/splasher casting and new cab? Having said that the other manufacturer could do the same with their Hall. I just hope

they do not do it together!

[Fazy]

thank for the list of books i will be working my way though them over the year looks like i have some reading to do between modeling.

my era is the BR (mr) so i can run EX MR LNWR with the stanier loco of couuse. with some BR standerds but i have

just been bought for XMASS a hronby clan and a ex LNER A1 which has put a spaner in the works but i like them now some one bought them for me

i do like the saint and hall and do need to be done better

[The son of Triangman]

The Hornby Saint came from the old Tri-ang-Hornby Hall moulds, they were modified by hornby to produce the Saint model.

[81F]

The son of Triangman said:

The Hornby Saint came from the old Tri-ang-Hornby Hall moulds, they were modified by hornby to produce the Saint model.

Yes I remember, I converted a saint to loco drive by the straight foreward expedient

of fitting the saint wheels, cylinders body etc to my late 1970s hall. The bigger wheels did make it a bit lively though!

Sadly its lack of detail has pushed it right back to the end of the DCC fitting queue in the hope I might be able to get something

better, hence my pleas for a "modern" saint or star model.

Having said that If I had to choose between a Saint or a Star I think I would go for a saint since it would probably be easier to convert to a star (providing any outside steam pipes were removable!

[Postman Prat]

Hi Fazy

You mentioned the Peppercorn A1 being out of place for your area. In the 1960s there were a number of diagrams which brought LNER pacifics to the Derby area.

[SkyCube]

I just hope that this means we can get onto some more Tank engines and smaller types. It's much easier to make branch-line layouts after all!

[LCDR]

SkyCube said:

I just hope that this means we can get onto some more Tank engines and smaller types. It's much easier to make branch-line layouts after all!

SkyCube I hope that this will happen as well, some smaller passenger

tanks 0-4-4T, 0-4-2T, 0-6-2T, 2-4-2T & 4-4-2T and small tender locomotives mainly 0-6-0 would be much more useful now that almost all the big'ns are made. The 0-6-0 tender loco was the commonest single type on BR right down until 1959. The Midland Railway

had hundreds of them, and the LNER constituents handed over many of these to BR too. The Southern had a few classes, and used them on a variety of duties, only the Western did not use them very much.

For modelling purposes they are fairly simple to

make with almost all having inside cylinders, and yet most look attractive and well proportioned.

A branch line is the usual subject for most railway modellers who have progressed from the train set oval stage. You can cram a lot in a small space and

yet get a lot of operating interest and scenic authenticity. You can in fact just about reproduce actual places in a normal sized room if you model a branch line terminus. I wonder how many people would model Ventnor if the right rolling stock were avaoilable.

[The son of Triangman]

looks like there's piles of stuff still to do. Stanier Push-pull 0-4-4T tank loco comes to mind