Hornby Class 50 R2350

[jaguar12]

I wonder if anyone can help with my 'good as new' R2350 NSE weathered Class 50 loco, which is a truly lovely looking and heavy loco.

As I have two issues, I have posted this in the general section (sorry).

Having discovered my Class 50 loco has the early PCB problem which affects converting it to DCC, I have been unable to source the modified PCB anywhere. It runs fine on DC, but I'd like to convert it to DCC.  

I couldn't get the loco to work with the DCC decoder in and I took Hornby's advice and turned it 180 degrees, but still no joy.

I've now take a punt on ordering an X9788 PCB, which is actually for a Class 56, but according to an advert for it from Peters Spares, one customer has reported it works OK in the early Class 50:

http://www.petersspares.com/hornby-x9788-class-56-main-pcb-board.ir

Does anyone have any ideas if this may be the case and will I do any major harm trying to use that instead?

Also, one of the traction tyres broke, so I've ordered some spare new ones.  All the other locos I have, you can easily get the tyre on the wheel without dismantling.  The Class 50 though, has not got any space to get the tyre over the wheel.  Any ideas how I go about fitting it?  I did read a suggestion that it was best to replace the wheels with a complete new part, but I wasn't sure of the code number I actually need to do that.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

[96RAF]

Welcome Jag

Download service sheet HSS270 from this site which covers the R2350 and look at two things:

 

1 - the main pcb X9235/M1 (item 5) already has a DCC socket.

2 - The bogie plastic side plates just prise off giving full access to the wheels to replace the tyres.

 

What exactly is the problem you think affects this loco being converted to DCC. The service sheet suggests all that is necessary is to remove the socket blanking plate (Item 21) and fitted an 8-pin decoder.

 

There is a difference between the lighting configuration on 21-pin sound (HSS370) and non sound models (HSS270) in that one uses common anode and the other is common cathode which affects swapping bodies or fitting after market lighting but they both work with their respective decoder types. 

 

Please come back with more info if possible.

Rob

[96RAF]

Further to my above info Jag...

 

I notice on the service sheet the tyres are on early model bogies only and thus there are two bogie numbers - X9232 early and X6386 latest without tyres.

 

Two choices there if you want to ditch the troublesome tyres - either replace the bogies with later type or see if you can source the tyreless wheel sets to fit in your existing bogies.

Rob

[jaguar12]

Thanks for the replies. 

Other than flickering lights (which I think was down to grubby wheels/contacts) the loco runs just fine on a DC controlled layout. My plan was just to pop in a decoder as it has the socket fitted inside, ready for use on my DCC layout. I understand this was one of Hornbys first ever locos with a DCC ready socket, although the loco box makes no mention of it, it certainly has the socket and blanking plug inside.

When I first opened the loco up, I tried fitting a brand new Hornby R8249 decoder but I couldn't get any response. I turned the decoder round 180 degrees but still it wouldn't work. I recalled I'd read the 1 wasn't printed in the right place! My Elite kept short circuiting ('Error') in both positions. Popping the same decoder chip into another loco, it worked fine. 

I looked online and posts from some years ago, people saying that their decoder had smoked or didn't work due to a wiring fault in the v.early PCBs on this loco. Hornby apparently replaced them free of charge years ago. I rang Hornby as I was happy to pay, but was told that they no longer have the modified PCB available. They had ordered new PCBs but they had come in and were the wrong shape so were sent back! Their only suggestion was to send the loco in to Hornby and await a donor loco for the part. This could take ages so I declined. They also suggested trying turning the decoder 180 degrees as well, but I explained that didn't seem to make a difference. 

I don't want to ruin any decoders, so I stopped and tried to source the PCB elsewhere, but no joy. Thats when I saw on Peters spares a comment saying the X9788 from the class 56 apparently works ok in the class 50.  From the photo it certainly looks like it will fit, but I'm not sure if I'll do any damage trying it out?

As I've ordered new tyres I thought I'd stick with that. With the tyres, how do you prise the side bogie sides off without breaking anything? Is there a trick to do it successfully?

I do really appreciate your help. 

Thanks

[Bigskybirds]

I had this issue on Hornby R2348 Class 50 and Hornby told me to reverse the decoder but I was not using a Hornby decoder and when reversed it blew the chip. I finally found a forum post that advised I cut the wires on pin 3 and 7 which I did and it now works fine.

[96RAF]

I just use a wide flat bladed screwdriver to prise the bogie side mouldings off. There are a couple spigots per the service sheet which you would favour prying either side of.

 

A few minutes with a meter could show where the pcb problem is and shuffling the associated wires where they attach at each end of the pcb may solve the problem - or - ditch the lights pcb in toto and wire in a bit of veroboard mounting the socket and resistors for the lights, etc.

Rob

[jaguar12]

Thanks I've managed to get the side moulding off adjacent to the tyre I need to replace.  As I've ordered 10 new tyres, maybe I will change the two on each bogie just as a precaution.

With regards to the PCB, you suggest cutting wires on pin 3 and 7 of my original PCB.  Would you be able to guide me a little further.  Are these wires obvious to cut? and are they actual wires or metal legs of resistors/capacitors? Sorry bit of a novice with such things, although I've got a friend who knows electronics and could probably help me out with a multimeter and this advice.

Also, does that then mean after cutting the wires that the loco would operate as normal with a decoder fitted (and the lights work as normal)?

[96RAF]

Wires 3 and 7 are the green and blue wires at the decoder so I think the advice from HFM probably means cutting those wires in the decoder harness as opposed to tracing them to their board out connections, which are a simple plastic keeper holding a loose wire onto a tag on the board.

Rob

[jaguar12]

Thanks for everyones advice about my Class 50 issues and particular converting it to DCC. In the hope that this update might help others. 

Clearly the original fit PCB is fine for DC control only, but fitting a DCC decoder into the socket, causes the short circuit issue. The original fit PCB is marked on the board, 1621-X001R6.

I've had a real result by taking a chance and ordering a new Hornby X9788 PCB, which is actually a replacement PCB for the Hornby Class 56.  When the PCB first arrived it was indeed the X9788 part, but was quite different looking.  I think Hornby must have updated the board.  The wrong one, had completely different white connectors either end, whereas, the one I needed had to have the six exposed copper connectors (that you then cover with the individual black jumpers to hold the wires on) at either end of the board and two in the middle.

After another X9788 PCB was despatched to me, this time with the correct connectors (the right version board is marked with 1621-X009RG), I fitted it along with an R8249 decoder.  It is quite fiddly to get all the 14 wires off the old PCB and into the matching location on the new board.  My Class 50 loco lighting now works perfectly and the loco operates/runs a treat on DCC.  Well as good as it can without one traction tyre missing, as I hope the new ones will arrive tomorrow!

Quite amazing really as I only found this out because of an odd comment against the part on Peters Spares website, saying a customer had advised them that the Class 56 PCB works fine in the early Class 50.  

The loco really is very nice and runs so precisely!

I took photos of the old and new replacement board in case anyone needs them.  Just ask. 

[96RAF]

Good result Jag and useful info about the differring replacement boards and their connectors.

Posting the associated pictures when the site gets back working again will be handy to file away for future reference.

Rob

[jaguar12]

/media/tinymce_upload/dee98843b91ec533d689bf3b3741e8b5.jpg

The image above is the original fit PCB as supplied by Hornby.  This works fine on DC, but short circuits if you put a DCC decoder in the socket.  Turning it 180 degrees still short circuits as well.

[jaguar12]

/media/tinymce_upload/1a2313b21587f0ef2d92d9464f32cd1e.jpg

Above is the original fit 'short circuit' PCB after removing it from my Class 50 loco

[jaguar12]

/media/tinymce_upload/3d67a10ffd6a8f86fccb1fe063694703.JPG

As it seems impossible to obtain the early modified official Class 50 PCB, I took a punt and ordered a PCB for the Hornby Class 56 (X9788).  Above is what arrived, which clearly is wrong as it doesn't have the jumpers at either end.  X9788 is definately the correct Hornby part code, but you need the first release, which has black the jumpers.  Luckily when I rang, they had some of the first version PCB's.

[jaguar12]

/media/tinymce_upload/deacd3f653e654ae4fad47b95c9a1a15.jpg

Here is the 'correct' X9788 PCB for the Class 56.  

[jaguar12]

/media/tinymce_upload/d983099e91760cb88764251238c46df9.jpg

All fitted, along with a Hornby R8249 DCC decoder.  Screw holes align perfectly as well.  Tried it on a programming track first, just as a precaution and all was OK.

Rather fiddly job getting each of the wires at either end and matching them to the correct jumper position!

Nonetheless the loco runs and works flawlessely, with all lights working as they should in the direction of travel and tail lights.

Hope this information may be of use to others, providing you can get hold of the 'correct' X9788 PCB!

[50FAN]

Hi

I will post this on the back of this thread i know it was done some years ago.

Please be patient with me whilst i explain as this has become very trying and it is my opinion that if you put something in one end it should come out the other unless something in-between is broken, but that thing should be able to be replaced or repaired,anyway.

I have a number of class 50s that all do the same thing.Flickering or permanently on lighting when it should not.I have read many posts on the subject but never really finding an answer thats why i have ended up on the back of this thread.Having said that if there is another post somewhere else that i have not found then please point me in the right direction.

I have a test chassis running on about 3.5mtrs of straight parallel track with cross over points at either end and this is all just dc i will be talking about.

I have pcb boards, firstly which i believe to be the oldest 1621-X001R6 of which i have 3, one works as should and as i mean as should means in forward direction white light lights rear red lights light,reverse the direction and the reverse happens,great .The other 2 give both a white and red light in one direction only ,in the other direction fine.

this also happens on boards 1621-X009R1,1621-X009R5

Having read this thread and others and seeing the new boards i decided to look inside hornbys latest,Leviathan to discover yet another new board with the pin connectors in replacement of the tab type /media/tinymce_upload/11f5ed8e79c9cab276172f7e5a62c6cc.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/54439c04136803c28aab1ef9aa9649c4.JPG other major changes.Anyway I decided to go the way of the class 56 board change as this seems to be identical and ordered.Today I received some boards,1 was of the tab type and others of the pin connector type so i thought great straight swap. The size was spot on so i Connected motor first and one bogie end and tested,ran.Checked other bogie end,fine so proceeded to connect lighting as per a 50,what i end up with is one end with working lights and nothing at the other.

I have checked over this board and cant find any difference so i thought i would check the pin/socket type board 56 against Leviathan class 50.There is a difference as you will see in photos.Apart from the big yellow thing in the centre r9 and r12 and and extra wire at either end from the connector are missing.

My question is am i missing something,is there a repair and what does the class 50 do that the 56 does not,lighting wise as i do not own a 56.

Any help in anyway is much appreciated 

Right now to see if i can upload pics

Thank you for reading

[Chrissaf]

Some of the information contained within these two previous threads may or may not provide some assistance.

.

Class 56 PCB Pinouts X9788

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/19201/?p=2

 

Class 50 PCB Factory Fault

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/28009/?p=1

.

[96RAF]

As some of the X9788s have different board numbers and revision states as well as different form and fit, I would hazard a guess that the ‘wrong’ ones have been simply mis-sticky-labelled by the seller.

 

The different comparative size of some components is likely due to the old component not being available at next loco batch so the pcb had to be redesigned to suit the superceding component(s) and the revision state amended.

[50FAN]

Sorry but none of that was of any use having already read those.

Right for anyone who is interested and is thinking of doing the same thing here is what i have found.

See photos for guidance.

You can fit a class 56 main pcb to a class 50 but you will end up with no headcode lights,end of,

[50FAN]

Heres a couple of things thst i found.

/media/tinymce_upload/f0a533198a605cf64143a5fe74e11d0c.JPG

[50FAN]

ok picture seems to be missing

the reason why?

resistors are missing on the 56 pc for headcode lights.Thats r9 and r10 which cant compplete the circuit through pin 2 on the connector

[50FAN]

ok my apologies especially the other posts of not being of any use.

To clarify,yes they were.They have helped me understand some electronic workings and the the pointing towards terminals and such like that are available in the market place especially form chrisaf.Once again my apologies its just that it has been so frustrating.

What i would like some help with is resistors.I understand that the 2 missing are smd resistors both of the same value 221 which i take to be 220ohm but i am at a loss as to how to identify them completely.Also chrisaaf pointed out an 8 pin jst connector which is a connector to board.Could you point me in the direction of a 2 pin in line connector in the same dimensions?

Help is appreciated thanks/media/tinymce_upload/af9d75e04f9eff633d66e60484acbf97.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/d235d1bcee4c5f8ab527a45ac8546f8f.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/ab20b34956030f633f491852fc81d944.JPG

[walkingthedog]

Pictures posted by members with only a few posts usually have to be checked by Admin who works 9-5 MON-FRI, which seems to be a reasonable thing to do. You can contact him and ask if he will allow instant picture posting. 

[96RAF]

50FAN rants about picture posting removed. They were posted over the weekend when Admin doesn’t work, as widely advertised on here tregular intervals. Apology noted.

[50FAN]

My apologies again.I had no idea that this was the case.A little homework required.I just flew off with what I was involved with and didn't stop to think.I was just trying to get get across with what I found if anybody else as trying to go down the same road I had taken.I will take deeper breaths in future and be more patient.

Thanks