Runaway Train and CV29

[96RAF]

Now I’m on the right track...

 

ESU sound decoders can be fully reworked by the user, but you need a LokProgrammer and also to download the free software from ESU.de.

 

One function of the software is to update the decoder firmware, separate from updating the sound files. All very easy once you have the kit and learned the software.

Rob

[RobOO]

Probably easier for me to send them back to the original shop I had them done then. Thanks for all the help.

Regarding the blue button; I see a few people have been pulled up on that. It's simply because it represents a reply icon, not quote. Also, the actiual green reply button is way off my page and I need to scroll down to find it. I appreciate that's probably down to my settings (100%) or normal.

Now I know, I will try not to annoy you again.

Regards,

Rob ;-)

 

[RDS]

... a few people have been pulled up on that. It's simply because it represents a reply icon ...

 

 

As Moderators we have tried time and time again to get it changed - without success.

We will keep trying though because it is extremely confusing, especially as you say that the actual correct place to post is well off the bottom of the screen.

 

[RobOO]

If you are still following this how would altering the bmf settings help given I've done resets with cv 8?

As it, or they I shoukd say were working before , I'm unsure as to why the settings would need changing in not work when set back to default. 

The only thing I can think that has changed since they last run sucsessfuly was my elite was sent back to hornby resently as it shorted out (permanently) and had the resistors replaced and they did a firmware upgrade at the same time. 

I can't imagine how this would cause a problem but I'll confess I'm no DCC expert and went with hornby because I thought it would be plug and play! 

I'm sure it is probably one of the simplest systems but still baffling at times for me.

[Fishmanoz]

Notwithstanding default settings, the hypothesis on back EMF runs like this - BEMF is generated by a motor under load, the more the load the more the BEMF.  The decoder reads the BEMF and increases the throttle when it rises or reduces the throttle when it falls, the aim being to keep the loco at constant speed under varying load.  However, if the decoder is overcompensating, then it may conceivably have the throttle set too high all of the time when there is a high load on the loco with lots of carriages in tow.  This is consistent with your symptoms so a possible cause of the fault. Reducing BEMF may therefore be the cure. 

 

You will I’ll need to check the decoder manual for what CV adjustments might be necessary. 

[Flashbang]

Hi

Having ensured all rail tops, all wheel rims and all rear of wheels and their wipers are spotlessly clean, check power connections to the track especially where plug-in clips or power track sections are used. These must be DCC style, if DC ones then opened it up and the internal capacitor must be removed.

ESU Loksound V4 decoders can be reset to default via CV8 value of 8 this will reset the decoder including it address number to 3. Note 1: it will not cause any sound files to be altered.  Note 2: If reset then again turn Off DC operation via CV29 to 2 or 34.

To turn Off the Bemf feature use CV49 and enter a value of 0 (Zero).  The range is 0 - 255. Zero is Off while any other value is Bemf On at that level of value.  

[RobOO]

Okay, the BEMF sounds interesting. the rails have been cleaned (they were very tarnished but all good now). The wheels on both locos are still like new (as they basically are new models) even so I have given them a quick going over with the Peco wheel cleaner. The actual pickups themselves look very difficult to do but as I said I can't imagine how they could be dirty. There's no fluff or debris in the loco at all.

The power to the track is the same system I used previously so I know that works; track bus wire under the baseboard with droppers to the track every 1-2 ft or where needed if closer.

Even if the BEMF change works there must still be a problem as it was fine before.

[RobOO]

The plot thickens.

I read the BEMF before changing it and it was 003. Changed it to 000 and tried again. This time had to put a lot of throttle on to make the train go but it still ran away.

Decided to open up one of the HSTs and take out the ESU sound decoder and try another DCC chip. Reset on the programme track and put back on the main. Runaway without any load on it at all. This has got to be a fault in some way with the HST model and nothing to do with the DCC chips surely?

[RobOO]

Another update.

I unpacked my 3rd HST (brand new) and fitted one of the decoders I know to be working (ESU sound) and ran it light (forgive me no running in) worked okay. Attached a rake and worked fine in reverse however forward it does the same thing the others do. With the sound chip you actually hear the turbos spool up it moves off gathers speed the the sound goes to idle or quietens down like its rollingand backed off. The the turbos kick in again and it run off again. The new model was almost working okay which makes me think it's got to be the model pickups. I went round the track with dapol track cleaning fluid after it had already had a good scrub and the new HST does seem to be working.

There's something about this model which particulally hates my track clearly, or is very weak on the pickups in someway which I find hard to believe. 

[geordi_q]

Have you tried the HST's on another ddc layout  (a friend or a local mr club or shop) to see if you have the same problem

That would then prove one way or another where the fault lies and may save a lot of fustration.

[RobOO]

I haven't tried on another layout as I dont know of one and I'm alone in my hobby with my circle of friends!

The fact that my brand new model is working out the box leads me to believe its the pickups. Can't see anything onlibe at the moment either about HST pickups or a how to clean them. They look very difficult to get to and I don't want to damage them. I've been very bust this week but I will try and give the model shop a bell tomorrow and see what they say.

[Tee1707818014]

Have you checked the elite is in standard mode & not classic as some loco's will respond differently if in classic?

[96RAF]

As the Elite was updated (should be v1.44) during repair it will boot into Standard mode.

Rob

[96RAF]

In summary of the above...try these options and report back on each.

Check Elite firmware version and that set to Standard mode (All seen at bootup).

Check and set CV29 as required. Try short and long addresses.

Set BEMF off or to recommended setting for ESU decoders if any (It is a heavy user manual).

If possible set up a simple test circle and try these locos on that.

Try each loco facing the other way on track (This was a known problem with TTS but may be evident with ESU decoders).

If possible try another DCC system controller (Same or different make).

Rob

 

[RobOO]

Rob,

My Elite is 1.44. I've tried the BEMF. I've done CV29 with DC on/off and long and short addresses. I've done them facing the other way around too.

I will set up a small circuit and see how that goes. I do currently have three bare ends on my main bus as it is unfinished which I did wonder was causing an issue but as my brand new HST is running almost 100% ok I'm sure it must be the pickups.

[RobOO]

Okay, I've now tried everything that has been suggested on here and am about to start ringing round the local train shops to see if they think they can sort it. If not it's sending back to the original shop upcountry or HCC.

 

Thanks for all the tips and advice anyway.

[Flashbang]

Hi

One more thing I would do is to fit Bus Filters to all the ends of the DCC Bus wires.

You can buy them ready made e.g. Gaugemaster, Railwayscenics or DCC Concepts sell them or make your own for a few pence each.  Details of components and how they are made and fitted is shown here if its of any help.... http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#On

[RobOO]

I have the bus filters but am going to plough om and finish the circuit (track) with the main line which might help. Also, my Hornby Elite is playing up again which may or may not be the reason. I've contacted HCC again. This will be the 3rd time it's been for repair.

[Fishmanoz]

Fit the filters now as Flashbang suggests (he is Brian Lambert by the way), don’t wait until the layout is complete. Move them to the bus ends when you are complete but they will do their job to a great extent wherever fitted. 

 

As as a matter of interest, what symptoms do you have on your Elite playing up?

[RobOO]

It was working (for allmost all the locos) but then I had trouble with all of them not working on the layout. The train tech led was barely lighting up. On a seperate test track the light was brighter, but the locos would only start sound up; under any motor load they cut out and the sound started again.

[RobOO]

The controller has now gone back to Hornby again.

[Fishmanoz]

Where have the rest of the posts on this thread gone?  Nothing contrary to forum rules in them. 

[Fishmanoz]

Or have I misremembered there were more?

[Fishmanoz]

Thanks Adam, my mistake. 

[NormanQ4]

@Fishmanoz

Or have I misremembered there were more?

 

Take comfort in knowing that you wont be alone in the misremembering world, I hear it's getting quite crowded. 😆