Controller cutting out under load

[distant]

I've recently bought a bog-standard Hornby single track train controller (ie not DCC).  It's fitted with a safety cut-out supposed to operate where a short-circuit or similar anomaly occurs.  However it will work properly only with the lightest of my locos.  If I try running any of the heavier locos (eg old ones made mainly of metal rather than plastic) the cut-out operates within seconds.  Has anyone else experienced this problem with current Hornby controllers and is there any remedy other than to try to get hold of a different type of controller not fitted with a cut-out?

[RDS]

Hi distant and welcome to the Forum

I am no expert on the Controllers but it seems likely to me that the newer controllers have less power output than the older ones that were built to operate the older Loco's.  It seems to be recognised that older Loco's draw more current than newer models.  It is likely that there is nothing wrong with the controller other than it is unsuitable for older Loco's.

[Lb101]

It cuts out due to the current draw From your loco’s. Only remedy (other than cleaning your motors though probably won’t solve it) is a controller with a higher current output. 

[Lb101]

Yes RDS. Distant, the current produced by your controller is dependent on the load being asked for by your loco (Voltage doesnt change). You’re controller cuts out when too much load is asked for, seems in your case even at low speed though it probably requires a high current to get your loco moving). Same will happen if you run say two or three new locos at the same time. I upgraded to the Hornby hm2000, never had any problems running very old locos and more than one at the same time. 

[distant]

Thank you both, RDS and Lb101.  I think between you, you have solved this. There is probably nothing amiss with the controller.  It is just unsuitable for older, heavier locos. It seems to me that this item should carry a suitable 'health warning' - after all, many people own older, heavier locos as well as newer, lighter ones, and which they might want to run.  There's presently no way of knowing before the item is purchased that this problem is likely to present itself.

[Chrissaf]

Unless the potential purchaser reads this forum first before making the purchase.

.

Search this forum for R8250 and you will find many posts bemoaning that the R8250 cuts out all too easily. It is designed as a controller for a single loco in a starter set. It is not designed IMHO as a controller for mainstay general use and definitely not designed for older heavy current consumption locos.

[RDS]

... no way of knowing before the item is purchased ...

 

There is actually. 

If buying from a Model shop, tell them what Loco's you intend to run and get confirmation that the Controller has sufficient current output to cope.

 

If not buying from a Model shop it is more difficult (as most things are), cheeck the spec of your Loco and compare this aagainst the spec of the Controller.  Take care though and allow some spare capacity because as the Loco and it's motor get older, it is possible that it will require more current, at least as it starts off.

[Chrissaf]

..........is there any remedy other than to try to get hold of a different type of controller not fitted with a cut-out?

.

The cut-out is there for a reason. So it sounds like you would rather have a controller that burns out and then needs replacing rather than cutting out to protect itself and the cash in your pocket. All proper controllers will have some form of cut-out, it is only the technical nature of the cut-out detection mechanism that changes with the cost of the controller i.e. more expensive controllers will have dynamic electronic short-circuit protection rather than cheap over sensitive heat detection cut-outs.

[Gordonvale]

Bought a Pendolio set in 2012. 

Laid track out on my billiard table - firm and level - for a test run.

Controller cut out after about 2 secs.

Transfered train to layout - no problem. 

Binned the set controller.

[Lb101]

I kept my two R8250 set controllers. One is perfect for my Hornby Turntable (variable speed and direction). The other for my smaller n scale layout which only runs one new loco at a time. Still cuts out from time to time but not a problem. Can also use them on lights etc as a dimmer. 

[David-354451]

Being new to this I have a problem like this. My controller cuts out after only 5-10 minutes of use. This controller came as a set with the engine and track. Is this therefore not fit for purpose as my grandson who also uses the set is unable to get any joy out of it

[508006]

From personal experience, I once bought a train set controller for my railway back in the 1990s. It just about coped with running on a 5ft x 4ft layout but it did have many drawbacks, here are those that I can remember:

1 ) As has been mentioned in other posts in this thread, it cut out quite often even if the rails were spotless.

2 ) Just the slightest bit of arcing off the rails activated the cut out.

3 ) Double heading was impossible.

These controllers only have a current threshold of about 350 milliamps, motors requiring more won't even start as I found out with a Jinty tank I had which at the time had an X04 motor in it. Despite being fully cleaned up on the chassis, all possible parts on the motor cleaned up, it barely crawled around the layout, eventually I had no choice but to withdraw the loco from service and put on a display shelf.

I now own 2 Hammant and Morgan Duette controllers and these are great. They put out 12 volts at 1 Amp per track and as a result more locos can even coupled together, up to now the maximum I have had coupled together is 5.

These controllers can be found on Ebay and sometimes in model shops although some are reluctant to sell older controllers unless they have experience of carrying out repairs to them before selling them to possible customers. I should also point out that I have had these controllers for about 21 years and they're still going strong.

Hope this helps.

[Rana Temporia]

Hammant and Morgan are great, apart from the second hand Clipper I bought that put mains voltage to the track! If you buy one have it tested. Don’t do it yourself, the innards of the older ones may have asbestos insulation in them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with he Tri-ang controllers. I still have a few and they will cope with anything I have including the odd Wrenn loco.

The best modern controllers for old locos are PWM ones, I have built several with parts from eBay for around £10 each and the old type controllers can’t touch them. A PWM controller gives pulses at full voltage, the faster the frequency of the pulses the faster the loco goes. Great for sticky motors. The circuits are around £2.50 off eBay and you also need a power supply, I use a 12v at 1.5A. You even have better control over the Smoky Joe type chassis!

DCC gives pulses at full voltage to the motors in exactly the same way as a PWM controller so when people tell you they wreck your motors, they don’t.

[What About The Bee]

Hello Distant

I happen to agree with you. The controller sold in train sets is NOT fit for purpose. Your experience is far from unique.

Sticking with a DC controller is perfectly reasonable. I use Gaugemaster. They offer a simple controller known as the "GMC-Combi". This offers 1 amp DC, 0 to 12 volts. This will handle absolutely any modern locomotive. My modern Hornby locomotives draw less than ¼ amp when running at max speed, max load. It also can make your locomotives crawl, if that is your thing, although likely not your grandson's thing 🙂.

The benefits of a new controller should be duck soup obvious. No safety issues for the grandson. Zero problems, zero worries. If it goes wrong, Gaugemaster stands behind the product. Sure, you will pay a pinch more than for an older, used controller. That extra money buys total peace of mind.

Did I mention safety? I really should...

Bee

[ModelerXYZ]

Hi distant.

There is no remedy other than to get hold of a more powerful controller. The hornby standard train set controller doesn't supply enough power to the track to use a heavier loco. I have a HM2000, which can cope with anything. My 2 train set controllers can't move some of my locos, so those locos have to be restricted to the mainlines. The older R965s (the black ones with a red dial) work well too.

XYZ

[Potterton]

Out of curiosity and in a similar vein, does anyone happen to know what the amp rating of the old Tri-ang/Tri-ang Hornby RP14 transformer/controller is?

[Woody52]

I don't know what the old Tri-ang controllers could handle, but I have an old Hornby Controller that I got brand new in the 1960's and it can handle 6 amps. I still use it on occasions. Never missed a beat in 60 years.

[Potterton]

Thanks Woody52.

That sounds about right. I have two RP14's in daily use on my layout dating from 1965 and 1967. One is used simply to power the point motors in the fiddle yard, but the other is used when three trains are running at the same time. (I use a H & M Duette for the main lines, either of which can be switch in for the branch, but I use the RP14 when the main lines are occupied.) In addition, the RP14 powers the points, semaphore signals in the scenic section and all the Eckon colour light signals which are of the older, (circa 1980's type), which use GoW bulbs instead of LED's. There are twenty of these, but the RP14 takes it all in its stride.