96RAF Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 You must have been a watchmaker in a previous life Ken.Fascinating stuff.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 You must have incredible patience. Keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choralc Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I am having eye strain simply looking at the parts being modified or remade. You are a very talented man GoWest no mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Ken,Next you will be telling us that you are fitting a working inside cylinder.............. 😆I'm really enjoying following the build. A OO scale Live Steam P2 - with a working valve gear - what a dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/cfb506621291be5cc25dd4ac4a915834.JPGMuzzaglad you like the P2 build I did toy with a test bed for this engine and make 5mm cylinders for all 3 in stead of 6mm and remake the valve block and cylinder block plus gear train to suite but could not allocate enough time as I have too much on the flying Scotsman would be the best chassis to use someone asked the same question on the GWR king and could have used the S69 inside cylinder block for that maybe with a smaller bore.but as said a lots going on today it's Heinkel day with my grandson after school, back a bit we were on Lundy and grandson wanted to find the 2 crashed Henkel planes we only had time to find one so now building a plastic kit of the plane along with its reg number then there's the Montgu which run aground on the island back in 1910 the ship was testing it new Marconi radio system which as I worked for Marconi was an interesting story so 2 steam engines to build and boiler plus the ship hard to find plans on the net but will keep at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I think you'd be hard-pressed to mend that, GW! 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Yes it's a shame as it made a wheels up landing and all 5 of the crew walked away but later the pilot then set fire to the plane in the picture are lots of metal bits melted from the engine castingsdont for get tonight bbc4 9 o clock James May and a look at Hornby followed by model railways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 well having watched the bbc prog on tv it has given me some thoughts on what to do with solving the problem with the switch board which follows so here goes Well thinking about this little problem it dawned on me that I was going to use my previous ideas on the indicator light which was the flickering led in the fire box but when I thought about it all this LED tells you is that when its dim the regulators shut and when the LED is bright it about to open the regulator So armed with this information there is no need as in the Duchess to run 2 wires from the switch to the LED resistor network all that is needed is 1 wire the open regulator or bright LED setting/media/tinymce_upload/5d283ebf5074e6ea3c8010b45eb5f2b1.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/f484528d3dd20ad54a3b08b1be2d45ae.jpgIn the circuit here is the new idea with the single wire from the switch going to the 2k2 resistor while the 4k7 resistor is permanently connector to a power rail so the LED will be dim but when the motor moves the regulator to the opening position the switch will connect the lower value resistor 2k2 and the LED well therefore become much brighter.This way the switch board can be cut down as now we only want 1 wire and by cutting the switch board down it will miss the valve timing screw./media/tinymce_upload/3ec855c20b5b5e32fd44340b62c87ff5.JPGWith the super heater removed you can see the valve timing adjustment unit and the switch contact on the bottom of the regulator valve, also you can see in this picture the bracket with the oil pump assembly fitted to the chassis./media/tinymce_upload/55aee3102ca612944921367fd67d29af.jpgThis picture might be a little more clearer the yellow arrow is showing the very small gap between the locking screw and the round rivet which did have a wire connected to it but is now redundant as we are only going to use a single connection from this switch unit which will be soldered to the lower rivet on the small printed board switch unit.I hope I’m making sense.So next will be to assemble the components and check it all works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/bf0cccff436a295ee3e91e27e7597552.JPGThe top of the Hornby weight was milled down by 5 mm as I have done before on larger engines so that the small printed board that has all the main connections and the flickering LED components on can be secured safely this was done with 2 small screws./media/tinymce_upload/7dbb815971beaf17585fed05c13ebdd3.jpgThe position for the flickering LED was worked out so that it would show through the fire hole door and with the body removed the LED would stay with the chassis for servicing as in the picture here. The safety valve in the picture will also need a mod as the valves on the body are about 10 mm further along from where the Hornby valve is on my chassis so the idea will be to make a small extension tube up for the top part of the valve to bring it inline./media/tinymce_upload/42d675161c69246b448aa52f7cbbe9e6.jpgBy using a small 2 pin socket the LED can be plugged in so should it need replacing no soldering iron will be needed. You can also see in this picture the bottom of the motor control board sticking up through the chassis on its brass bracket and the temporary 8BA nut and screw so that the board is out of the way of the wheels when I think of a way to fit them./media/tinymce_upload/68eb53ba89187b686b73930f01c5409b.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/c996c2b32d867f509898ccf0221f8896.jpgThis is the layout of the parts and wiring for the engine the flickering LED 2 wires then connect from the LED socket to the main distribution PCB which is screwed to the Hornby weight Also from here are the 2 motor connection and the 2 heater connections plus the single wire from the regulator switch./media/tinymce_upload/6118d9da79e00b97826886dd408cd841.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/836688ccc2447ea78123dc72a28872f1.jpgLooking at the under side of the engine the small motor control printed board will be held in place by a small brass bracket fixed to this printed board and the fixing screw for the body at this point is going to be used to keep it in place. As said the flickering LED will shine through the fire hole door and the 2 large black wires connect to the tender frames as in the Hornby idea which supplies the power to the engine. With all this work complete a steam test can be carried out to see if the different parts work successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Brilliant KenI can obviously see how you fit things in, but I have no idea how you do it - magic shrinking dust I reckon.Lets hope it passes muster.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 hi Robsteam tests will show up any faults have ordered the paintken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 KenFYIhttp://www.freewebs.com/mainlytrains/RSA/Cock%20o'the%20north.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Robi wish i hadnt seen that as it shows 2 oil pumps on the right hand side of the engine were they then on both sides or what?Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Another idea that would look good would be to build the 2 engines oil pump drive linkage from one of the main drivers.So looking at Hornby parts that I had it looked to be not that much of a problem so starting by making a bracket which would be held to the chassis with 2 existing screws for the electric motor I soldered 3 very small angle brackets to this large bracket and then started to rivet the linkage to these small brackets the centre bracket of the 3 would hold a 90 degree crank link which you can see in the layout here./media/tinymce_upload/d5786d504245e4119fef8d6242ae260c.jpgThe oil pump linkage was made up and fitted and after some steam runs it worked ok.In the pictures here is the finished job./media/tinymce_upload/ea5306662403732c4e1e6e19c220a23e.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/338228d95252ab00265f41b5505f6749.jpgI replaced the crank pin on this wheel for a longer one with the 2 flats to take the link and a small hex screw to fix it all in place.The next part of the build that needed sorting out was the safety valves./media/tinymce_upload/12ed03426d7524bca34e1b137e2462e6.jpgEven with the Hornby safety valve now 12 millimetres further towards the cab which you might be able to see in this picture as it shows the old hole position in the chassis it was still not in the right place to be under the brass valves on the P2 body.If these valves were to emit steam like the real engine then some sort of an extension or moving the Hornby safety valve still further along the chassis would be a way to go.After giving it some thought I cam up with this idea which will keep the standard Hornby lay out so should the unit need replacing in the future it will not involve remaking or moding a new valve why reinvent the wheel./media/tinymce_upload/b3d7ab1c56ca06a7c00d83d9d6a33cb0.JPGFirst I drilled out the 2 small holes in the cap on the top of the Hornby safety valve as in the picture then I silver soldered 2 short lengths of copper pipe in the holes.Then by bending the copper pipes I managed to bring them inline with the valves on the top of the body./media/tinymce_upload/cb8d6002c55addc4d79ad4c3ca37c7fa.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/387e7f81faae7ec0b64f5c162952fc74.jpgSome steam test will show how well this idea is.The inside of the cab needs completing along with its 2 crewmen but I also need a tender and looking at the Hornby tender for the A3 if I used one of these most of the work would be done./media/tinymce_upload/789953e92b5cb2b934281ac9306e65d8.jpgHaving said that the body would need its corridor section removed as some might point out they never ran with a corridor tender and I would rather keep it as a spare than chop it about and as I do have the tender in the kit it makes sense to build that up and see if it will fit the Hornby chassis and wheels.Looking at the picture it looks ok all I need do is make up some new fixing points and to screw it in place and try it out./media/tinymce_upload/469a9ddbb48d72ec025db9e3fec51f25.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Robi wish i hadnt seen that as it shows 2 oil pumps on the right hand side of the engine were they then on both sides or what?Ken Ken I just googled P2 loco and selected images tab and scrolled through to find allsorts of different configurations. Looks as if they were on CotN one side only or maybe both, but not on Mons Meg but maybe were on Wolf of Badenoch or Prince of Wales, depends which picture you look at, also some build variation info from P2 trust project. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2018/01/p2s-the-p2-steam-locomotive-company-and-doncaster-p2-locomotive-trust-project-information.htmlhttps://images.app.goo.gl/ksZk8Z7j7AJHiK896https://images.app.goo.gl/PvJspdi6jcjjfsXSAhttps://images.app.goo.gl/6iSFvc7E1U4CDLZQ6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 Hi Roblooking at your pictures and doing a general search I can not see oil pumps on the right hand side fo C/N the only thing on that side was the speedo drive so should I put that in now ? When they changed the valve gear they moved the oil pumps up the running board nearer the cylinders which is more common to most engines.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Only build the speedo drive in if its connected to the gauge Ken. Worm drive cable may be a tad fiddly to make. Don’t go for much more detail. I’m amazed by the tiny parts for the oil pump linkages.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 RobI think I'll give the speedo a miss I could just add the bits that go to make up the unit it looks like the ones fitted to GWR Kings where a dc generator driven from the wheel is wired to a volt meter but calibrated in mph not volts I did build one for a 7.25 gauge king along with the automatic braking system if you pass a signal at danger.its funny but when I was building railway engines years ago my father would say why don't you build an LNER engine and apart from the S69 of grandads his father I now have this P2 on the go so look out dad there might be another one one day the only thing is he's not here to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/76acad5bc83067fb2c5cf651a37e9554.jpgThe body of the loco was finished and so with the body fitted some steam tests were carried out.Sparks from the front of the engine could be seen as the engine ran around the curved sections of my track.And in the picture you can see just how far the front wheels swing across the front of the body to negotiate this part of the track it was also observed that these wheels were not turning but skidding around the curves.A close examination showed the sparks were from the left hand wheel rubbing on the cheese head screw that held the body in place at the front so this was changed to a counter sunk screw and also the cylinder drain cocks were move more to the outside of the cylinder covers this then gave more space for the wheels to move about./media/tinymce_upload/91dbd690ce702426adc94c3712bf44a1.jpgLooking at the engine running around the track I tried to see if I could see the valve drive shafts rotating as the engine ran passed and no matter how much I looked I could not detect any movement so spending all that time making them rotate was a complete waist of time.But apart from that the engine ran well so it was time to paint the body and apply the transfers./media/tinymce_upload/7b03abea7a8df8e729b3cf1333674b5e.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/1dfb70e3df4694809274bb285aac1347.jpgThe back of the boiler was painted and the crew already to fit inside the cab the driver Jock working away at the controls while the fireman Scotty built up the fire for the long run ahead of them./media/tinymce_upload/b5ba2c6672c7f637de6b8f1d886d5ae2.jpgI was a bit worried about the colour green as it was the Doncaster shade but as it turned out it looks ok Lining out the engine is always a struggle but looking from a distance with the lights out it will have to go.Still got the tender to finish and then the chassis needs stripping and cleaning then fit new wheels and paint the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWR-Gordon-4 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 gowest, the green looks alright now. I think what helps is that the cab roof has been painted black, all with the 'Cock O' The North' nameplate and '2001' decals have been added. I admire you for taking up this project. You are doing very well. Well done. 😉 😀 GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Looks very good to me Ken.Even if you can’t see the valve gear rotating you know it does and that is where the satisfaction is.I always look forward to seeing the crew installed into a painted cab as I know the job is nearly finished.The sun is shining on the gauges but it looks like a full head of steam.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Looks fine to me. Funny the difference the lining and some black paint makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Here we are for the last part of this P2 live steam engine A3/A4 conversion and as previous out came the spray gun and the paint brush.The chassis was stripped and cleaned it was painted and the new wheels with the white lining fitted the drive from the steam valve was remade as the one fitted was a little loose and in a short time it was thought might lead to some steam leaks these models need to be as steam tight as possible as the steam generation side of these engines is limited and a leak will soon show up as the engine will loose pressure quickly supplying leaks and the 2 cylinders.This can shown up as the engine starting off fast and strong then getting slower and weaker as it progress around the track till it can in some cases come to a complete stop. If left stationary on the track with the regulator open they will in some cases start up on there own and fly off at great speed as the boiler pressure builds up to 30 psi.I have seen this with full size engines as a boy at Brentwood station bank in Essex on the run up to Shenfield one thing you do not get with the electric trains. There was an engine shed at the end of Brentwood station with a tank engine there to help push trains up the bank but all gone now.With the chassis rebuilt a test run in steam just to make sure all was working ok and the valve timing was still in the right place.Sad to say no go the engine just sat there with steam blowing up the chimney and the wheels locked up solid was it the quartering was it valve timing even a push seamed to make timing a hole lot worse, what could be wrong before the paint job it was running fine a look a the steam value was the place to start./media/tinymce_upload/122621722177db24c43b3ef958ebaf38.JPGThe small plastic rotating valve had its centre torn out (see picture good valve is on the left) the new part must be 10 thou over size and when the 4 screws on the valve cover were tighten all that happened was that the cover and the new shaft had clamped the valve up against its valve face so ripping the middle out of the valve when the Hornby valve shaft turned.A new valve was now needed and fitted and a new steam test carried out. This time the engine only moved about 12 inches and stopped with a push it went 12 inches and stopped each time what was wrong now?A standard Hornby valve unit was fitted and the engine run fine so a check on the Ken valve found the dive pin was too long this was corrected and off the engine went again this time much better but with too much steam coming from the chimney this might be an in proper valve fitting or the valve spring not giving enough pressure to the rotating valve and its face./media/tinymce_upload/40b9fdf85acf5744888d8165acf27dd7.jpgThe spring can be stretched a little to apply more force as for the valve what I do if poor valve contact is thought to be a problem and this is with the A3 engine with the chrome plated valve assembly shown here, /media/tinymce_upload/feb32e3518198ae07fddeea3e3bad668.jpgTo correct any scratches or marks in the valve face is to get some 1000 wet/dry about 4 inches square lay the paper on a piece of glass and put the rotating valve onto the wet/dry and with an even pressure drag the valve down the paper inspect the valve face with a magnifier to see that it has an even mat look to it the out side edge is as important as the very centre as any steam leaks will occur here and show with steam just going from the pressure side straight up the chimney. if you think its ok refit and try a steam run./media/tinymce_upload/830c9d120a9ffe4a4076816f7e21ac72.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/cf4653744f58420ed3fb69a05b8e0fc0.jpgthe valve is under my finger so you can not see it this is to give the valve an even pressure when you drag it down the paper.It may take a few 30 min runs to get the valve to bed in correctly.Having gone through all the above at last the engine was back to something like it was before I started taking it apart for painting and the new parts added. /media/tinymce_upload/cbc6563dbdd4d306c07681ac8a17b2fb.jpgA picture of the engine with its new wheels and transfers lining out the cylinder covers and rear frames and axle boxes I never did get the rear pony wheels to stay on my track so opted for the flangeless Hornby idea./media/tinymce_upload/e2971eb749f0c838775732888861d525.jpgI think the fire mans wandering where the tenders gone!Now the tender was the next item to be finished off the coal was made as on other engines I have described before here so will leave that bit out. /media/tinymce_upload/1e8adf5b839cab3cb5d57c6c61c3be1a.jpgThe new fixing points were set out so that the body can be fixed in the same way as the Hornby design as the boiler chassis and wheels were going to be as the Hornby A3 units.The chassis parts in the kit were not going to be used this did save a lot of work.Once this was completed and all fitted ok the painting can started.Then with the paint dry the lining out quite a bit on this tender and a part I never like doing as the lines need to be dead straight and mine never do but then you’re a long time dead?To finish a coat of varnish this helps seal in the transfers and protect them from oil water and the heat./media/tinymce_upload/fd3b9cfd288f24e5d73e85ce644a9c80.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/b2cfa208f4c56aacd89b44e6c25d79d1.jpgNext was to fit the rear lamp this I have explained before so will skip the detail but just give the build that I did for this engine, which was to fit the lamp in place on the body with the fibre optic cable coming through the rear panel of the tender body pictured here. /media/tinymce_upload/34504125de2f3f84a9fff99f35529030.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/8c3145d911ce42d5f8d9a564b0821aba.JPG /media/tinymce_upload/64acc0574408060c21efc78e37efc2e1.jpgYou can just about see the other end of the fibre optic cable by the yellow arrow. A flickering red LED was soldered to some Vero board with a bridge rectifier and a 47uf capacitor along with a resistor 10k./media/tinymce_upload/49db887d8929f48bcd7eeacf07b8d580.jpgBy making up 2 brass or copper wire links from the Vero board to the 2 screws that take the power from the brass chassis rails to the heater and thermostat will also make a simpler assembly and provide a fixing to keep the board and LED in the right place to light up the lamp. The LED was set into the plastic frame at the tear of the Hornby tender./media/tinymce_upload/f466d4af7b12cb18efddd68827c5c9cd.jpgThis idea could be used on the Hornby A3 and A4 engines if you wanted working oil lamps.So that now completes the tender next will be to put it all together and see if it will still run and pull a carriage or two if so will take some video and post it here to mark the end of another live steam project./media/tinymce_upload/68f754eac4b1311af19227d17c31e7e9.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Another fine job almost complete Ken. I hope it runs as good as it looks..................(what can we talk him into building next......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Well done, again, Ken. A masterclass in skill and patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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