Points for dcc layout

[Mickky]

Hi,

I am about to start a dcc layout but am confused by so many conflicting posts about points.

If I use Hornby points with dcc clips, are there any other things to take into consideration ?

 

[Chrissaf]

No not really. If you are using Hornby track, then your choice of points is quite limiting anyway. Just try and avoid the R8074 & 8075 curved points they are more trouble than they are worth.

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Give an example of what you mean by conflicting posts?

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EDIT: Having just looked at your posting history. In one post you said you were going to install a DCC Bus wiring system. If that is still the case, then you don't need to use DCC point clips. You either use DCC point clips OR a wired Bus NOT both together.

[Mickky]

I have read about using insulating fish plates but are they needed when using dcc. I am a pensioner and dare I say it, a little slow where technology is involved

[Chrissaf]

With Hornby track on a DCC controlled layout you do not normally need any Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs).

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There is an exception. You would use IRJs if your track layout design includes a 'Reverse Loop'. I define a 'Reverse Loop' as any element in a track layout design that allows a locomotive to start at a location on the layout, travel a route through the layout and arrive back at its starting location but facing the other way.

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There is one other potential exception and that is if you are not using Hornby track / points at all and are using Peco branded track with Peco Electrofrog points. It is Peco Electrofrog points that need IRJs, Hornby do not make Electrofrog points therefore the need for IRJs does not arise.

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[Mickky]

Thanks Chrissaff, that seems simple enough,

[Gbh4]

 Just to check on something in this thread. When you say DCC point clips, are those the little staple like things that you fit in the points?

 

I've got a DCC system with a wired bus, but the bus is only wired to the track in a couple of places (although I plan to attach it in a couple more places). Would I still need these clips if they are the things I'm thinking of?

[Howbi]

@Gbh4......Yes, the point clips look like staples.......if every part of your layout (including sidings) has a track feed then you do not need the clips.........HB

[Fishmanoz]

And if you only have a couple of connections to the track from the bus, yes you will need DCC point clips on all points. You will only be able to remove them once you have droppers to the bus to or from all 3 tracks from every point.  If for example, you have 2 points separated by track pieces and there is no dropper to one of those track pieces then, depending how your points are set at each end, those track pieces may be dead. You will have to either add a dropper or have point clips on the points at either end of those track pieces to make sure they are live all the time. 

[Gbh4]

Thanks, that confirms I’ve understood it correctly, which is a start!

[RWO]

Re: using R8074 & 8075 on DCC layout. I have a small issue with the shorter types of engine, (ie 0-6-0) not negotiating the above points very well. They tend to stall, and in most cases slowly pick up. Occasionally I need to "move" them on over the points. At no time do I get an overload from the stall. Is this the issue that you are alluding to? Longer configuration engines do not seem to suffer the same way and quite happily run over the points.

Cheers

Ron

[Chrissaf]

Is this the issue that you are alluding to?

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No.....I was alluding to the high number of rolling stock derailment experienced on curved points. All Hornby points (not just curved ones) have power pick up issues with 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 locomotives. Many on here fit 'stay alive' capacitors to their DCC decoders to compensate for the break in electrical track connectivity.

[2e0dtoeric]

Just to clarify - short wheel-base loco's (ie shunters and saddle-tanks) get 'stuck' on the points because they lose contact with the metal rails, and are only in contact with the plastic Y piece. Plastic does not conduct electricity. 😎

You need to check that ALL your wheels, and the pick-up wipers, are clean, to help reduce this problem.

The only real cure is more pick-up's - which sometimes isn't possible, but there are 'cheats' - use a 'shunter's truck' permanently coupled, with pick-ups and wires across to the loco. You have to fit and wire this yourself, as far as I know there isn't one ready-fitted, although there are some four-wheel trucks around.

[LeeBow55]

With Hornby track on a DCC controlled layout you do not normally need any Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs).

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There is an exception. You would use IRJs if your track layout design includes a 'Reverse Loop'. I define a 'Reverse Loop' as any element in a track layout design that allows a locomotive to start at a location on the layout, travel a route through the layout and arrive back at its starting location but facing the other way.

First time post, and hopefully not a thread hijack as I have the same query and desire for clarification as OP. Thank you for the information provided. In my example I am running a DCC Bus and feeding all my track, I am however including a R070 Turntable (which I bought with the DCC decoder fitted). Therefore I believe I will see the issue that was raised above. Would I only put an Insulated Joiner on the points that feed the section for the Turntable? Thank you

[Chrissaf]

@LeeBow55

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The R070 out of the box is an analogue turntable and you are quite correct, the R070 can generate a 'reverse loop' when used on an 'always live track' DCC layout. The totality of all the best minds on this forum (not me this time, as I have no experience of using the R070) have combined their resources to come up with a DCC conversion plan that is considered 'best engineering practice' by the forum membership for the Hornby R070 TT on a DCC layout.

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The DCC modification proposal is in two parts (click the links in the list below):

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1. What is the recommended practice for converting the Hornby R070 TT to DCC
2. How to set it up in RailMaster (if RM is used as your controller).

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PS - You need to read the whole of the threads in context, not just individual posts in the threads.

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TIP: As this is your first post, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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[MaartinL6]

With Hornby track on a DCC controlled layout you do not normally need any Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs).

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There is an exception. You would use IRJs if your track layout design includes a 'Reverse Loop'. I define a 'Reverse Loop' as any element in a track layout design that allows a locomotive to start at a location on the layout, travel a route through the layout and arrive back at its starting location but facing the other way.

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There is one other potential exception and that is if you are not using Hornby track / points at all and are using Peco branded track with Peco Electrofrog points. It is Peco Electrofrog points that need IRJs, Hornby do not make Electrofrog points therefore the need for IRJs does not arise.

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Hi Chrissaf 

if I create a dCC layout with 2 ovals joined by points and some sidings with points off the inner oval, how do I determine where the place the electrical track connectors/ clips or how many to use?  can the connections all be run off one Select controller or do I need to add another controller?  

Cheers

martin

[RDS]

I converted an R070 turntable to DCC but I did not have (or need) a Reverse Loop, because although the Loco turns itself around, a Reverse Loop is not needed providing there is only one entry point from the Turntable to the main layout.

[Chrissaf]

@MaartinL6

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...can the connections all be run off one Select controller or do I need to add another controller? 

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In DCC you MUST have only one controller connected to the layout. The controllers communicate digitally using a binary (ones and zeros) code protocol between the controller and the decoders fitted in the locomotives etc. If you have a second digital controller talking digitally at the same time, the decoders will hear a total mis-mash of digital binary ones and zeros and get totally confused. Not only that, but having two lots of power on the track could damage one or other of the controllers.

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If I create a dCC layout with 2 ovals joined by points and some sidings with points off the inner oval, how do I determine where to place the electrical track connectors/ clips or how many to use?

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With regard two ovals and power connections. Read Chapter 6 of my downloadable PDF. The download link for my "Getting Started, including Track Extension Packs" document. Is located in the sticky post with the same named title located at the top of the 'General Discussion' forum.

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[MaartinL6]

Thanks Chrissaf, great response and the document you refer is simply brilliant  😆