The future of Hornby and Variation of Coronation Class locos

[Alannora]

I have great interest in keeping Hornby in business, and was very disturbed by the recent TV programme which put forward the Hellfire as the saviour of the Airfix range.  This model must cost an awful lot, and it certainly takes enormous efforts to build and paint.  The result MUST be that aircraft modellers can only afford 1 model to build and then don't buy another for years, if at all.  How can this be sensible for Hornby?  

Now read this over to the rail side.  Modellers are finding models are ever more becoming more expensive, more complex, more fragile and involving more and more support such as computers and chips. How long can the hobby be fully funded by a limited demand?   I feel Children, analogue modellers, and modellers with more limited incomes are turning to eBay to satisfy their call to extend their stock rather than buying new.  Meanwhile Hornby is spending ever more income on  development, accuracy, technology, and support of difficult in house and at home problems.  How can this effort improve Hornby finances and profitability? 

So, Mr            , what is the answer?  Surely there must be some top of the line models, but Hornby must provide what the mass of potential  buyers will buy.  I believe they will buy models which look good when moving on the track rather than have expensive museum quality items.  They will also respond to variations in decor, or tweaks to present a slightly different item such as both double and single funnels,  different tenders, names and numbering and this goes for coaches too. There must be hundreds of simple varieties appealing to hordes of buyers for models which are already 95 per cent tooled.

Over the years I've written to but been ignored by various CEs with my suggestions of the 10000-10001 Twins, The Princess Turbomotive, a prewar single chimney Coronation, and unstreamlined Coronations with a streamlined tender. Though I've not suggested it before,  it seems to me that real modellers might respond to unassembled but painted items similar to the aircraft range.  Perhaps models could be sold with included or post purchase conversion packs.  Simplified access to coaches would add possibilities of a range of seated passengers in 00 scale, an area sadly missing today.

OK, so all that's now off my chest.  Perhaps other forum members will comment further. 

 

Alan

[walkingthedog]

Some valid points but I'm afraid "I feel Children, analogue modellers, and modellers with more limited incomes" rather insulting as if only DCC modellers are real railway modellers, the rest are just pretending. Many analogue users, and there are many, have no interest in DCC, even if it was cheaper than analogue. 

End of rant.  😀

[Howbi]

@Alannora.......I think your perception of the current state of this model rail industry is incorrect........there are more model makers than ever, even magazines are commissioning new models as well as Retailers.........O scale and OO9 are showing increased numbers of models available..........5 popular model railway magazines are obviously well supported and full of adverts with enthusiasm for future sales..........I don't think that what was the junior side of the market is of much importance these days; the money is with the over 60's as can quite easily be observed at model railway shows and exhibitions which are overwhelmed with old gits like me......... 😀.........HB

[Alannora]

Thanks for responding .  I am an analogue user with over 100 locos.  My track is all  sectionalisend and my accessible points flicked by my fingers.   I enjoy running trains and having a hands on association with he train.  I change regions and timeframes too, but we're all free to do our thing.  Hornby must aim at the most profit beneficial areas, and I'm not convinced that DCC is all it's cracked up to be.  Further to the previous, I'd like to see powered tenders supplementing the loco motor on the more powerful prototypes.  Many are quite useless for climbing with a fair load up the gradients necessary on a home layout rather than in club or show environment, and thus generating dissatisfaction.  Locos which won't pull wont sell. 

Alannora

[walkingthedog]

With regard to the Hellfire kit. It costs about the same as a loco. Many of us buy a loco every few months. An ex colleague of mine would build a kit like that every month, they don’t take as long as the one on the show, it was the first preproduction version. They sold out in days. a good move by Hornby. 

 

I really think Hornby will do well in the future. If they don’t make a model we want, somebody else will. Just about everything seems to be made unfortunately for my wallet.  😮

[LCDR]

 The other day I treated myself to one of Hornby's 'new' class 66 locos, NEW for about  £68.  Now I don't actually see how they can make a loco for that price. It is a reasonably accurate depiction of the real thing. It runs beautifully and I am sure when he sees it my grandson will be 'over the moon!'. The type is 'common as muck', today I must have seen half a dozen of them between York and Newcastle this afternoon, so as the prime goods loco on the UK at the present day it cannot go far wrong. Hornby now make them, so do Bachmann,

 

The locomotive types mentioned by the OP "the 10000-10001 Twins, The Princess Turbomotive, a prewar single chimney Coronation, and unstreamlined Coronations with a streamlined tender." are not exactly mainstream types which would appeal to the wider modelling fraternity. These almost rank with the "Hush-Hush", Bullied's "Leader", "The Great Bear", "Big Bertha", and the GER "Decapod" as interesting freaks, one offs,  or dead end designs. Now these do attract a minority interest so some of them have been picked up by dealers like Hattons, Rails and Kernow who are prepared to take the risk and commission limited editions, but I don't think that on their own Hornby or Bachmann can make a sufficiently good business case to commit to the tooling, on spec. 

 

That said the LMS Twins seem to have done fairly well, but it was thanks to Rails of Sheffield (and Hattons who sponsored a competing model from Dapol!) that they were developed. And it has to be remembered that there is a scheme to re-create one in real life.I cannot see Hornby wanting to risk their scarce capital to pursue a further competing product.

 

I remain amazed at how Hornby can still introduce four or five new locomotive models every year. This year they have done it again with the 48DS, the Peckett B2, the A1/A1X, the Princess Royal, and the Large Prarie.  Together with revamped older models with new names, numbers and liveries they offer a remarkable amount of choice time after time.

[LCDR]

 I am also an analogue operator with  300 OO scale locomotives and powered rolling stock  (135 BR South Eastern steam 1948-1961, 41 BR South Central & South Western steam 1948 - 1967, 58 BR non- Southern Region steam 1948 - 1968, 28 BR Diesels and Electric locomotives, and 38 BR (S)  multiple units,

 

I would dearly love Hornby and Bachmann to make models of every type that ever operated on the South Eastern division of SR/BR 1923 - 1961, but being a realist I have to make do with what I can get!

[NWR-Gordon-4]

@howbiman

 

Most modellers are over 60's? Where do I come then? I am no where near my 60's!  😆

 

@LC&DR

 

Which livery Class 66 did you get? This tooling is an ex-Lima tooling, so this why I believe it costs just shy of £70.00. If this a new tooling tooled by Hornby, it would cost much more, I am sure.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[LCDR]

 There is only one, the original EW&S.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

C 😎 😎l!

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[JeremiahBunyan]

@LC&DR

 

Which livery Class 66 did you get? This tooling is an ex-Lima tooling, so this why I believe it costs just shy of £70.00. If this a new tooling tooled by Hornby, it would cost much more, I am sure.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

I don't think it has anything to do with it's Lima heritage, because every since Hornby acquired the tooling for the Class 66, Hornby have invested heavily in modifying the tooling. They have since updated the tooling to accomodate NEM couplings, make it DCC ready and updated it to be powered by a 5-pole motorized bogie. These modifications might seem small, so small that most people have no idea it's been done, but these kind of modifications cost a fair bit.

 

The reason for it's low cost is becuase Hornby have the variety, they've listed no less than 9 of them. That's going to give Hornby it's much needed money without having to sell it at a higher cost.

 

Hornby can do the same with their Class 37, Class 47 and Class 86 as well. They'll have a lot of liveries to do spanning from the BR Blue era to the present day TOCs and FOCs.

[LCDR]

 Certainly I do not have any quibble with the detail of my new locomotive, it looks just like the class 66 I see passing through York, and it runs smoothly. OK it doesn't have working lights or separately fitted handrails, it doesn't have sound either, but none of these things I feel are essential.

 

Thinking about diesel and electric prototypes mentioned I agree the Class 37, Class 47 and Class 86, could certainly benefit from this approach, as too could the class 20 and class 25.

[Howbi]

Hornby got these class 66 models out at a very attractive price to steal a march on Hattons who are producing their own range of 66's as mentioned in the recent Hornby TV programme. Simon Kohler making his presence felt in the Retail trade..........HB

[LCDR]

 Interestingly the 66 is being marketed as a main range model and NOT RailRoad, despite the bargain price. And they are offered on the website at £10 cheaper (£74.99) than the RailRoad class 59 models (£84.99), which I presume is also a revamped Lima model.

 

Is this possibly the start of the end of RailRoad as a seperate brand?

 

Could we maybe see some more of the former Lima models given the upgrade treatment, with flush cab windows and alternative liveries. Perhaps they might start with the Birmingham/Sulzer/Crompton Type 3 (33 post TOPS) with the alternative 33/1 version with high level brake hoses, and the Type 2 variant (TOPS class 26 / 27) for our friends in Scotland. Lima produced both types if course.

 

[atom3624]

Are they then going to upgrade these - directional lights, opening doors, operating fans, separate pipework / electrics, sprung buffers - or downgrade the 'quality' diesels?

 

I like these extra details, personally - I know some say they're not bothered.

 

Al.