Digitising Lord of the Isles

[bms]

Yes if you are referring to either the dcc ready version; plug in an 8 pin decoder, and yes if you are referring to an earlier non-DCC ready verion.

 

In the later case you need to ensure that,after modification, the motor electrical terminals have

 

NO contact with the chassis, and have NO capacitors, chokes etc fitted. Take a decoder and connect the red and black one to each side of the pickups and the orange and grey each to a seperate motor terminal.

 

The most recent Lord of the Isles picks up

 

from ALL wheels on the engine (including bogie, and is therefore a better runner. The bogie with wires attached is a spare part; try Googling for it.

 

Putting the body on requires thinning of unnecessary decoder wires, but watch out fro possible shorts.

 

Does

 

this answer yur question?

[Fishmanoz]

With the old version, the trick is that you must add an insulating sleeve around the brush tensioning spring on the other brush so that both have them, and so avoid that short to chassis that will fry your decoder otherwise. Then remove the suppression

 

inductor when you disconnect the pickup wires from the motor. Now it is a simple matter of connecting red to the pickup connection, black to the chassis and orange and grey to the insulated brushes, preferably using brush clips rather then soldering directly

 

to the brushes.

[Fishmanoz]

Is there a tender drive version, given you have mentioned the tender? If so, you need to follow Ringfiled fitting instructions including insulating the left hand brush from chassis using a plastic screw or insulating sleeve for the screw. Search under

 

Ringfiled conversion where it has been covered many times.

[Fishmanoz]

That is of course Ringfield.

[RonWalker]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies. Mine is the old model with pickup on the main wheels only. I will look into the new bogie adaption. The reason that I mentioned the tender is that I can find no place in the engine to put even a reasonably small

 

decoder and was contemplating putting in the tender. Has anyone found a space in the engine that will take it?

[dlaloum]

Hi RonWalker, et al.

I know this is a very old posting - still, it would be good to know if the DCC conversion of the Lord of the Isles was a success, and what was required to get it there...

I have (will have when it arrives) an R795 version - which looks like it is almost identical to the earlier Triang in terms of pickup design at least, and would like to convert it to DCC operation.

Apparently the newer DCC ready version R2560 has the bogie with pickups (part X9657) - although I have not tracked down anyone that has it in stock on the web yet.

From the earlier posting, I assume that the chassis is live, as there is some mention of isolation by Fishmanoz? (I don't yet have it... it is on its way in the parcel post...)

 

Thanks

[Chrissaf]

Dialoum,

As you say this is an old post.......at 6 years old.

.

But look at the post count for the original poster 'Ron Walker' (post count 2) and the main responder 'BMS' (post count 8).

.

Now if I was a betting man......I would bet that the chance of either of those two individuals still being on this forum six years later to see your post is very slight indeed.

[96RAF]

Pull the service sheet for R2560 Lord of the Isles loco and have a look at how Hornby did it.

 

Compare SS 295 DCC ready R2560 with SS32 for the old R354 model to see any common areas and how the one could be used to DCC the other.

 

Have you got R795 right as that is an 0-4-0 loco not a Dean Goods.4-2-2.

[Fishmanoz]

I'm still around to add to my previous.  Forget the tender/Ringfield details, that was a just in case due to the tender mentioned.

 

The old loco has the R number and service sheet 32 as Rob has mentioned.  It has an X05 motor so very simple conversion as per mine above adding the insulating sleeve to the second side of the brush retaining spring.  Yes, the chassis is live and the return on one side but the sleeves insulate the brushes from it so no problem there.

[RDS]

Does anyone have any experience of adding DCC to the Lord of the Isles loco and tender please?

[dlaloum]

Hi RAF96 - I have pulled all the service sheets I could - the current and the original Triang sheets are available...

The late nineties R795 pack (loco and 3 clerestory coaches) - no sign of service sheets.

Also no sign of an independent product number of the loco.

I'm being very cautious as I have not done this before....

I will know next week what the guts of the LotI look like....

 

Thanks for responding.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The later Hornby China made LOTI have a different motor and Chassis from the Tri-ang type, which use the TT gauge derived X.05 motor.

 

Later Margate made models use a different single start plastic worm, on the same motor.

 

The China made models use the small motor. Type 7?

 

I think that there is more room in the China made loco...

 

[96RAF]

More info here...

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=3837

 

Click on each link here and you will get the loco R number, thence to a service sheet...

http://www.hornbyguide.com/search_item_results.asp

 

e.g...

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=146

 

[Fishmanoz]

I used those links via a search to provide my advice on page 1 of this thread.

[dlaloum]

So....

It has arrived.

It looks Pretty.

It has a service sheet - and is dated 1981, with instructions for fitting Zero1 !

/media/tinymce_upload/f0c144e5b875ed60db2d9a19eb228662.jpg

 

/media/tinymce_upload/4a87307d417a0a10d71387235620c24e.jpg

So my first coment - Looks like I just need to do some soldering and move the brush clip to "the new position"

From the look of it there may be enough space for a small decoder.

Pickup seems to be from the rear 2 sets of wheels - I may need to either get the later bogie with pickups, or consider a DCC decoder with stay alive. (TCS KAM4?)

I'd rather not start drilling holes to put things in the tender.... (maybe later for sound?)

The Zero 1 connection points show 3 leads - Why? (its DC...!?) Which 2 should be used for a DCC decoder? 

 

Thanks 

[dlaloum]

Still not finding correct service sheets and parts for this version of the LotI...

there is a 1983 ex Caledonian LMS 4-2-2 Dean Single (R763), which most likely is mechanically identical (being produced 2 years later, the year after that version of LotI was discontinued).

 

but the reference on Hornbyguide ( http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=113 ) points to service sheet R354 - the old Triang.

When you look closely at the front bogie, it is clearly not the same - the detailing is much much simpler.

My guess is the Hornbyguide is wrong.... 

 

Also came across some references in the Zero1 installation guide.... R354 LotI is not recommended for Zero1, and nor is R553 ex Caledonian. (no mention of the later R763 and R795)

[96RAF]

Looking at that drawing..

 

Green from the left hand pickup to the zero 1 module.

Black is from the right hand pickups via the chassis frame to the module, also to the uninsulated motor brush.

Red is from the module to the insulated motor brush.

 

Treat it just like a normal live chassis conversion. Isolate the other brush and wire as normal.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Your instruction sheet was printed in July 1981.

 

It shews the X.06 motor. That is the former XT.60 TT gauge motor, with the plastic single start worm, the same as used on the 'new type' X.03 (Hornby reused the X.03 designation, formerly the old MK3 Tri-ang Railways motor).

 

Yes, the pickup is the driving and trailing wheels.

 

There may well be an actual traction magnet under the baseplate, acting on those wheels...or it may be, as a late model, not actually magnetised.

 

For some reason, for Zero 1 wiring, the brush clip and insulating sleeve have to be swapped over from the other leg of the brush spring.

 

Zero 1 was/is a bit different from today's DCC regards wiring..

 

As RAF has said. Put another insulating tube on the uninsulated side of the brush spring, and get another brush clip to wire to for that side.

 

Disconnect the existing power feed from the pick up plate to the insulated side brush clip.

 

Then rewire as convention...

 

 

[dlaloum]

Hi Folks,

For DCC decoder sizing - what sort of current consumption should I assume?

 

Can I safely go with a 0.5A like the R7150 / 8249 , 0.75A  or 1A like the R8245/Saphire?

 

The DCC Concepts Zen Nano is very small, which would make it easier to fit, and it comes with a stay alive (of the millisecond variety...) - I figure if I use a 6 wire harness with 6wire decoder that would keep the whole thing as compact as possible... - but it is a 0.75A decoder.

 

Smallest 1A or greater decoder with stay alive wire(s) that I can find seems to be LaisDCC....

 

Also - what is the "other" brush insulated with? Do I need to order something to fit ?

 

This is partly being done for me, and partly for my 6yo... so reliable operation, and minimised frustration is important!

 

I'm intending (possibly rashly?) to program it using Railmaster, but run it using a Select controller (simpler for mr 6yo)... are there things I should watch out for?

 

 

Thanks

[96RAF]

Just keep the loco address within the Select operating range of no higher than 59.

 

The motor conversion has been covered on the forum before so the details are already posted if you can find them with the poor search engine. Probably better googling for DCC conversion of that motor type and hope it leads back here.

 

If Hornby had pressed on with their Select-a-Link cable you could have run the loco from RM using the Select, but they didn’t so you can only use one or the other, not both at once.

[96RAF]

X03/04 motor conversion.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/759/?p=3

LotI should be similar methodology, if the method explained in the previous leaflet wasn’t enough.

[Fishmanoz]

As these motors are old, best not to assume what current capability required, do a stall current test on DC to find out what you actually have to allow for in the decoder amps.  Magnets weaken with age and current the motor draws goes up as magnet strength goes down.

 

Any piece of insulated tubing will do for the other side of the brush spring.  Strip it from a short piece of cable or even halve the existing piece on the other side as long as the halved pieces are long enough to insulate the brush and its clip from the spring.

[dlaloum]

 Thanks folks - learning a lot in a short time.

Got the LoTI out on Sunday to test it... and unfortunately it has a nasty wobble - currently negotiating with the vendor to either return the whole set, or just the loco (and keept the shortie GWR Clerestory coaches) - and then purchase the upcoming R3759, or find a good nick "Flying Dutchman" pack or R2560 Lord of the Isles - either of which are DCC ready (yes I like/prefer the Indian Red frame versions.... ).

The 4-2-2's seem quite popular, and are going in used condition, frequently for more than the announced price for the new version (R3759).

In any case  - this thread has taught me a lot, and I now know how to DCC any of the X03/X04 motor family.... very handy.

 

bye for now

[dlaloum]

Fishmanoz.... if current draw rises with decreased magnet strength, I assume it would fall if the motor is fitted with a neo magnet ?

Can a dcc decoder be placed near the magnet? Or should they be kept well away at the other end of the chassis?

[96RAF]

A bodge fix for these motors if a weak magnet is suspect is simply to place a small neo onto the original magnet.

 

I have had a ringfield where the neo was too strong and the 3-pole motor was notchy hand turning it. It would not run under less than half power, so that idea was binned in favour of a new standard magnet.