Brand new to the hobby - Day 3 Observations

[Will Hay]

Hello.

I've picked up a second hand DCC mixed freight  and Somerset Belle, all mounted to a 6' x 4' board with Track add-ons A thru F and assorted buildings.

All sat on the printed sheet, obviously.

It also came with blue highlander but being DC won't get used.

I've added clips to all points and all seems live apart from one siding when I switch it, but I'll worry about that later.

You may have seen from my original post that this had two AC power adapters, one still had the resistor in but all sorted now.

The points scare me to death, I can't imagine having to switch these over manually each time but electrics are witchcraft to me so a beginners guide to my options would be useful.

I have seven points.

Most frustratingly the trains seem to stop or stutter with no rhyme or reason.

I've been running them.slow to try find a pattern but the only thing I can see is it often occurs over points, but certainly not always.

Oddly, one train in particular was perfect at very low speed for a significant amount of time but when travelling in the opposite direction, on the same track, suffered stops and stutters.

The stops can be remedied by gently pushing the trains ninety degrees to the track, i.e. not forward in the direction of travel. It's almost like the wheels need realigning on the track.

Then, on the next run, the train will sail over the previous problematic position without a care in the world, aargh!!!!

I wonder if the three trains I have are significantly worn, although that wouldn't explain why they struggle at point positions [i've checked the clips, they're not fouling the route].

I've bought a rubber and rubbed down the track.

I've also removed sections of track to realign to ensure the best possible fit.

The set up is, in my opinion, a little noisy, I'm unsure what to expect but some trains are noisier than others.

The select controller is somewhat irritating at times, if I inadvertently enter a number I dont have assigned, for example pressing '31' instead of '3' and then the select button, it stores '31' in the memory and I can't see a means to delete just that one,I have to reset the entire thing.

My firmware is 10.30.03, rather old from what I've read. Is an upgrade a worthy investment/worth the hassle?

I'm old enough now to have upgraded many firmware and seen little change.

I doubt the problems I'm experiencing will be fixed by the latest firmware.

I've run two trains again whilst typing and the outer track has had multiple stops over points and the inner track has only had stops over corners,none of which had happened every time on each complete circuit.

I've also just changed the direction of the trains on each track and the outer track train has yet to stop and the inner train keeps stopping on corners.

 

[96RAF]

Looking at the Select first. If it was any older it would have a key in the side. It is definitely worth the £15 for getting it updated by Hornby. At v1.0 it is almost useless, only being able to operate four functions, but at v1.6 it will be able to operate all functions F0 to F28 includive, change CVs, reset decoders, have better track overload protection, etc. Call HCC to arrange a return to works for the update.

 

Looking at your stuttery trains. Running better in one direction than the other and then working when you biase the wheels sideways points to the wipers on the backs of the wheels needing adjustment to give them better contact. If you tip the loco over snd push the wheels side to side can you see the little brass wipers moving off the backs of the wheels. If so then as the loco corners then it loses pickup from the track. Using tweezers or a cocktail stick be d them slightly to press better on the wheel backs.

 

Not only do you have to keep the track clean but you need to keep the loco wheels clean as well, the wheel rims as well as inside faces.

[Will Hay]

Many thanks.

Whilst very fiddly and, in truth, impossible to measure success, I've used tweezers on the copper strips, all to no avail.

[96RAF]

Adjusting the wipers is an art improved only by practice and often failure. Keep at it. Move the wheel away from the contact then tweak the contact into a bow shape. Repeat in the opposite direction.

 

It is sometime easier to remove the lower chassis (if ther is one) securing the wheel sets onto the chassis so you can get at the wipers better, although this can be very fiddling.

 

When you completely knacker them wipers strips are usually available for the more common locos from the usual suppliers.

[Jimbo1707820979]

I fondly remember Will Hay in "The Ghost Train", though I doubt he could sort out your problems. Have you tried cleaning your loco wheels until they are absolutely spotlessly clean ?  Almost invisible "dirt" is often the cause of stuttery running, simple though it may seem. This is particularly the case with DCC as opposed to DC. Maybe this helps.

[Will Hay]

Thank you Jim.

Yes, despite my relatively young age for an actor of such an era, my username is a nod to the great man himself.

It's a constant for me throughout the internet.

Check out 'Oh, Mr Porter!' If you haven't already. In my opinion it's his finest work and timeless, and given the title very relevant to our hobby :)

I've re attempted RAF's suggestion a little more rigorously and, so far, I've seen a slight improvement.

Presumably to clean the wheels I'll need to strip down again?

Whilst adjusting the flux capacitor [copper on wheels] I noticed a little oil here and there on each train, presumably this is normal?

I did notice some on the wheels, I'm sure.

Do the wheels simply have to be spotless and dry, so I can use a cloth of some kind, without any cleaning solution?

Also, my wife noticed one train leaning in one bend which, after investigation, neded s track pin.

How esse tial is it that all track is pinned at every pin hole? I'm not sure all are.

Thanks again.

[96RAF]

You can get conductive lubricants, such as comtact lube and cleaner, but the problem is any oily residue is going to attract dust and dirt, etc and make gunge on your wheels. I run my wheels dry having cleaned them with IPA, a GM600 wheel cleaner and a final wipe with dry kitchen roll. You should be able to adequately clean the wheel rims and backs without dismantling everything, as it is a routine periodic task.

 

Getting track dead flat is more important across points than in the main run. You can build super-elevation into your corners for realism if you want to but don’t overdo it or it looks silly. I pin track at every other hole and that is probably overmuch, but some folk prefer to remove temporary pins after gluing it down either with a flexible glue like Copydex or by using wet fix ballast.

[Will Hay]

Once again; sincere thanks RAF.

As for cleaning wheels in-situ, they don't appear to want to rotate when off the track, whi h obviously means can't fully clean them without dismantling.

Am I being too gentle?

 

At the risk of appearing stupid, may I ask a question regarding the [extremely useful] pinned post, specifically the guide referred to as 'getting started with extension packs'?

Having now decided to add a third ring from the 'blue highlander' AC set I have I can't reconcile the dimensions of the tracks with that I have here.

For example, R606 is listed as 438mm yet mine is 185mm ish.

R609 is listed as 505mm yet mine here is nearer 440mm.

[96RAF]

Do not force the wheels. Your model has a worm drive on the motor meshing with a spur gear on the axle. This gear arrangement is one way only  - the motor will turn the wheels but the wheels cannot turn the motor. Just touch the wheels with a 9V battery terminals whilst holding it upside down in your hand to nudge the wheels round. Some models have an all spur gear train which can be turned from the wheels e.g. ringfield motors.

 

Track - the dimensions shown are the radius of the circle a full set of curves would make, measured to the centre line between the rails, it is not the length of the track section. 

R606/R607 is R2 and R609 is R3. To add a third ring you need R4 track. 

See the track geometry download for info.

[Will Hay]

Ah, I see, thank you.

Yes, it's the R4 track I need.

Hornby appear to have six crossover sections; R8072, 73, 74, 75, 77 & 78.

Presumably the 4th radius warrants the R8077 and 78?

Your wheel advice; thanks.

[Will Hay]

Ah,no, my question on crossover contains incorrect assumptions.

I need to do some research on how to create a crossover from a straight section of R4 to a straight section of R3 and also from a curved section of R4 to a curved section of R3.

[walkingthedog]

There isn't a straight section on R3 and R4. They are curved.

[RB51]

For clarity Will presumably you mean from your R3 loop to the R4 loop and back again? R-

[Will Hay]

Exactly that, Roger, yes.

 

Walkingthedog,

I current have the standard loop with packs A thru F.

By adding eight lengths of the double curve R4 section I'll also add two lengths of R603.

 

Sorry for the format but this is my plan [although I only shown one link between R3 > R4 whereas I want two]...

 

... https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a6j8v91lumnhvs/Screenshot_20200101-190451_Gallery.jpg?dl=0

[RB51]

No problem with the format - its fine. To avoid reversing you will need two crossovers one R4/R3 and back and another R3/R2 and back. I have not looked at the track pieces you mention in detail but do you have sufficient straight runs [long pieces] there to manage all that? R-

[Will Hay]

Somewhat naively I assumed I could use spare tra k I have but, having just laid it all out, it's a full set of R3 and extension pack A, so of absolutely no use in creating an outer R4 ring.

I figured I'd simply need six R4 double curves, two R4 single curves, one R603 very long straight and two R601 straight lengths.

 

This would surely [don't call me Shirley] give me a full R4 ring, whi h I would then need to add two crossover pieces [the type/code of which I'm not sure of].

 

On that last point, I guess what I'm saying is I dont understand when to use R8072 and R8074 when creating a link between R3 and R4.

[RB51]

It doesn't sound as though you have enough space for three running loops. What are the baseboard dimensions? R-

[Will Hay]

Ive thought of that.

I need to add some 50x50 to the perimeter.

 

The board is 8' x 4'.

 

I'm also no longer sure I can create a crossover between R4 and R3 on the curved section of the loop.

I guess this can only be done on a straight length of track as presumably the crossover would need to be formed from two tracks each with a different radius.

 

Looking at my current set up I have a crossover between R2 and R3 but only one and this is on a straight run.

[RB51]

Crossovers on curved track can be tricky - much better on straight runs.

 

What is the 50x50 you are adding? Another 50cm on all edges?

 

R-

[Will Hay]

I have one short edge that needs another inch to accommodate the R4 loop.

On the following photos it's the right hand end that's every so slightly short.

 

I'm simply going to add a length of 2" x 2" x 48".

 

I'm not overly worried about the aesthetics for now.

Sure, the trackmat thingy is fine but not a long term plan.

 

Existing layout here:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hkc6zp5fqqklk1/20200101_201420.jpg?dl=0

 

Proposed layout here [temporarily created using spare, albeit unsuitable track lengths:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6ibppyb0blbses/20200101_200751.jpg?dl=0

 

Forgive the quality.

I was perched on a chair trying to take a panorama with my phone.

[RB51]

OK - so it seems you have your head around the board dimension issue and have an solution in mind.

 

Have you managed with the track you have to work out what you need to do [or get] to complete your crossovers with correct track pieces? You look to be fairly close.

 

R-

[Will Hay]

Hi Roger.

Yes, I think I'm there now on track parts I need.

 

R8626 x 8

R8072 x 4

R8073 x 1

R600 x 1 plus surplus I already have

R601 x 1

 

I have to say that whilst increasing the track I'm a little nervous about adding more points, these seem to be a bit of a pain at the minute.

 

Nothing ventured...

 

 

Anyway, thanks for your advice so far.

[RB51]

Well done. Let us know if you need any further advice. R-

[Bulleidboy]

Hi Will - I hope I haven't missed it, but what's the problem with points? Looking at your proposed layout, I would operate the points via one CDU (Capacity  Discharge Unit - you only need one), and possibly Peco point motors. All fairly simple to set-up.  BB

[Will Hay]

Thanks Roger.

 

Thanks Bulleidboy.

Powered points are next on my list but not immediate, but I'll do some reading on your suggestion.

Presumably I'd also need a transformer and a panel with levers to control each point?